Announcement

**Peter J.** · 12-20-2017, 07:10 AM

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:HyphenationZone>21</w:HyphenationZone> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w

oNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>SV</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w

ontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w

ontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <w

ontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <w

ontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="******45;-"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Thanks for your reply Jesus, I think it pretty much confirms my concern about the single digits.
I also think it’s safe to conclude we’re all in agreement about the non-verified markings on the top of the ball, hence we perhaps should take that topic out this equation for the time being.
The digits 1, 2 and 5 have all been accounted for as an indication of the different classes in images #112, 114 and 113, #3 I can vouch for and “4” according to Angolia. Now, if a single”8” stamped on the hinge of a 4.Klasse can’t be explained, what makes us so sure the others are what we think they are? The suggestion that this number should be similar to the letters found on the top of the ball, seems a bit far fetched IMHO. We have now 7 individually incorrectly marked crosses and that raise questions, at least in my world.

cheers
Peter

**marisca lrommel** · 12-20-2017, 12:45 PM

The only thing I can assure you is that the cross marked 8 on the hinge also had the marking "900 21" on the shoe, which is 100% original and that I have seen set composed of neck order + order with star with the "900" mark "1" on the ring of the neck order. However, neck orders that are not part of a set show markings such as "900" or "900 21".

I have also seen marked "900" and "3" which indicates that that neck order belongs to the period 1943-1945 in my opinion.

I have also seen them marked with other numbers and they were original ... to see if I find images and I publish them .... I suppose not everything is said with respect to the markings of the Order of the German Eagle

**marisca lrommel** · 12-20-2017, 12:47 PM

I may be absent for a few days for some issues but I do not forget to participate in this thread ... Greetings to all

**Runic** · 12-20-2017, 12:50 PM

Peter,
It makes me wonder as well, the markings on the ball seem quite a different matter from the single digit numbers. So many incorrectly marked pieces make me scratch my head.

This is one of, no, The most complicated award IMHO.

I know that Christopher is doing research on the marks and the numbers on the fans giving the class of the awards. I hope he shares them with me in a graphic form so that I can post them here for readers interest. Then I can at least try to keep up with you and Jesus in providing useful information.

He is also doing very detailed research into the different types of Eagles- it gets very complex as you know. The cases also tell their own story.

Jesus, thank you for posting the beautiful star from the Edward collection. I’m pretty sure it is the same as the anomaly I posted earlier. Hope you don’t mind me posting a comparison, so it is easier to see.

A similar prototype anomaly is found in David Littlejohn’s “Orders, Decorations, Medals and Badges of the Third Reich “– page 23, with caption Grand Cross of the Order of the German Eagle in Silver (1943).

I am told of another - by Dr Klietmann in his book Staatlich-Zivile Auszeichnungen on page 116 where he shows this type of star again with the caption – Verdienstorden vom Deutschen Adler. Deutscher Adlerorden. To the side is a picture of the sash and sash badge – the caption states Verdienstorden vom Deutschen Adler. Deutscher Adlerorden. Erste Klasse.

Surmounting the first star with shorter arms in the quarters, is a standard 8 pointed star - the caption states Verdienstorden vom Deutschen Adler. Deutscher Adlerorden Erste Klasse Stern.

So - is the star the second design of the Deutscher Adlerorden I Klasse? The silver Eagles would be hard to distinguish from the Grand cross with gold eagles.
Thanks to my friend Christopher for references and pointing out these interesting facts.

Peter, did you say you know of 6 of these prototypes? That would make the one Jesus posted a very rare item indeed.

Ironfist, do you know of any reference books or instances of the anomalies or prototypes? I don’t have the Klietmann book.

Don’t want to get too far off subject, but this is just one more of many fascinating things about the Order of the German Eagle.

R

Attached Files

**marisca lrommel** · 12-20-2017, 12:57 PM

Another 935 sold in Spain by the family heirs of the winner. The swords are later placed by the prize-winner who was military.

Attached Files

**Peter J.** · 12-20-2017, 01:51 PM

"I suppose not everything is said with respect to the markings of the Order of the German Eagle".

Jesus, I totally agree with you. I think was is needed here is an Excel-project, accounting for versions of crosses with the single digit markings (or double digits). Amongst the 6 versions I mentioned is a "12"!!!

Runic, I don't view the "8"-marked cross, nor any of the 6 pieces I mentioned as prototypes, but rather un-explainable. As for the Littlejohn book, he refers to the "normal" GC Star as "Gold", but the GC "prototype" as silver. Who said collecting is easy

Sorry Runic, I should have read your post more properly.

cheers
Peter

**ironfist** · 12-20-2017, 02:32 PM

?????????

Jesus.
Thank you for the ticking off on the other thread that is running on this.
dam I am so sorry .
Ok getting back to these 935 markings .you said on the other thread you have seen other ones of these that were awarded from the families (several)
So when you wrote your book WHY did you not put this quite common item in it right back then .My word Jesus it would have saved a great deal of trouble.May we see the sets that you have studied with these markings please.
Best regards Pete

**Runic** · 12-20-2017, 06:41 PM

Jesus,
Regarding the “8” / The American soldier who saw the glint among the rocks-
“who when he went to see the body of the Japanese found that the brightness was caused by this plaque that was attached to the chest so it was removed and brought it as a memory ... but this may be true or pure fantasy ... never what we will know”
But you state it is 100% real and Godet because you still have the case til this day?????

Sounds like pure fantasy to me - NO ONE would wear this Order in combat, and if they did, they wouldn’t carry the case around with them!!!!!! The American frisked the dead Japanese body and found the Godet case??

How many Iron Cross First Class Medals were brought home by American Vets, WITH the Case found on the body as well? None. Just
IMHO. And this is a Political Award - Not a combat award! It is extremely unlikely this award would be found by combat forces! Much more likely that it would be picked up by occupying forces.

Still looks like a real example though, mas o menos. But of course my opinion is not worthy even of a simple reply, from you, as I am persona non grata. You can’t afford your reputation to answer me.

Seriously, looks good except the 8, but I am an amateur, not an ‘expert’ like you, so don’t take my word that it is real. I don’t have my entire reputation on the line on everything I post, like you do. So when you ignore this, the intelligent collectors will know why.

But your silence speaks volumes, compadre. Y si habla Espanol. So no toques los huevos.

The American finding this 8 Badge seems totally and obviously fake to me, because I’m a BIG believer in the motto “buy the item, not the story.”

R alias Juancho

**Runic** · 12-20-2017, 09:00 PM

R

**Peter J.** · 12-21-2017, 03:31 PM

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:HyphenationZone>21</w:HyphenationZone> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w

oNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>SV</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w

ontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w

ontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <w

ontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <w

ontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="******45;-"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Jesus, this is IMO highly disputable (provided our perception of the significance of these numbers indeed is related to the actual class) and if you think it through, you’ll probably understand my reservation. I’ll give you a hint:

“I have also seen marked "900" and "3" which indicates that that neck order belongs to the period 1943-1945 in my opinion.”

This is of course absolutely correct, but what does that tell us about this:

“I have seen set composed of neck order + order with star with
the "900" mark "1" on the ring of the neck order. However, neck orders
that are not part of a set show markings such as "900" or "900 21".”

Cheers
Peter
</pre>

**marisca lrommel** · 12-22-2017, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by ironfist View Post

Jesus.
Thank you for the ticking off on the other thread that is running on this.
dam I am so sorry .
Ok getting back to these 935 markings .you said on the other thread you have seen other ones of these that were awarded from the families (several)
So when you wrote your book WHY did you not put this quite common item in it right back then .My word Jesus it would have saved a great deal of trouble.May we see the sets that you have studied with these markings please.
Best regards Pete

If you look at volume 2 of my book: "The German Eagle Order volume two: Details, Variants and market values" on page 42 you will see that this model appears as Second Class Badge 1St Design-Type 1

As for the specimens studied, I'm putting some images in this thread that you can see

**marisca lrommel** · 12-22-2017, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by Runic View Post

Jesus,
Regarding the “8” / The American soldier who saw the glint among the rocks-
“who when he went to see the body of the Japanese found that the brightness was caused by this plaque that was attached to the chest so it was removed and brought it as a memory ... but this may be true or pure fantasy ... never what we will know”
But you state it is 100% real and Godet because you still have the case til this day?????

Sounds like pure fantasy to me - NO ONE would wear this Order in combat, and if they did, they wouldn’t carry the case around with them!!!!!! The American frisked the dead Japanese body and found the Godet case??

How many Iron Cross First Class Medals were brought home by American Vets, WITH the Case found on the body as well? None. Just
IMHO. And this is a Political Award - Not a combat award! It is extremely unlikely this award would be found by combat forces! Much more likely that it would be picked up by occupying forces.

Still looks like a real example though, mas o menos. But of course my opinion is not worthy even of a simple reply, from you, as I am persona non grata. You can’t afford your reputation to answer me.

Seriously, looks good except the 8, but I am an amateur, not an ‘expert’ like you, so don’t take my word that it is real. I don’t have my entire reputation on the line on everything I post, like you do. So when you ignore this, the intelligent collectors will know why.

But your silence speaks volumes, compadre. Y si habla Espanol. So no toques los huevos.

The American finding this 8 Badge seems totally and obviously fake to me, because I’m a BIG believer in the motto “buy the item, not the story.”

R alias Juancho

I see you have not understood what I said ....

1-It was not me who said that this badge was found in the chest of a dead Japanese officer ... he was a user of this forum to which I bought the badge ... a user who is North American ... from his country.

2-I said that I keep the case but never made sure that this case was from that badge ... it is a bcase of the Order of the German Eagle with original swords that I used with that plate when it was in my collection. The badge with swords I sold a few months ago but I still have the case where I had it exposed on my display cabinet ... that's what I meant

3-I never wanted to touch anyone's eggs .... I'm not homosexual.......I prefer touch female sexual organs, instead of eggs, he, he, he

I do not understand how you have put with me ... maybe you have something against the Spaniards or against me personally ... I sincerely hope that you can overcome it because I do not think I have said any savagery or have put myself against you ..

Do not worry runic ... I have not taken your comments to heart ... I have many personal problems in my life now to take their words seriously.
Pulgares hacia arriba

**marisca lrommel** · 12-22-2017, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by Peter J. View Post

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:HyphenationZone>21</w:HyphenationZone> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w

oNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>SV</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w

ontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w

ontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <w

ontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <w

ontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Jesus, this is IMO highly disputable (provided our perception of the significance of these numbers indeed is related to the actual class) and if you think it through, you’ll probably understand my reservation. I’ll give you a hint:

“I have also seen marked "900" and "3" which indicates that that neck order belongs to the period 1943-1945 in my opinion.”

This is of course absolutely correct, but what does that tell us about this:

“I have seen set composed of neck order + order with star with
the "900" mark "1" on the ring of the neck order. However, neck orders
that are not part of a set show markings such as "900" or "900 21".”

Cheers
Peter
</pre>

I mean that loose neck orders (which are not part of a set) usually show "900" or "900 21" or "900" "3" in 1943-1945 but when they are part of a set of Order of Neck + Order with Star usually show the mark "900" "2" Maybe I have not explained myself well before

**marisca lrommel** · 12-22-2017, 09:58 AM

I leave you guys ... I will face my personal problems ... Merry Christmas to allPulgares hacia arriba

**Peter J.** · 12-22-2017, 10:36 AM

No problem Jesus, I'll explain more thoroughly when I've put down someting more
comprehensible.

Merry Christmas

Peter

Announcement

German Eagle Order

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Users Viewing this Thread