Announcement

**marisca lrommel** · 12-08-2017, 02:02 AM

Originally posted by Peter J. View Post

J-F,

"The award was originally given to the denazified seller (Without eagles) and, in order to restore this prize and sell as a first class, the eagles are separated from a third class cross of 1937 and welded into the Cross that".

I thought we agreed on using the correct concept. Can you please re-write this with the appropriate distinction of classes, so I know how to address this properly.

cheers
Peter

I do not really know what you mean by this ... the copy sold in e-medals is a Gran Cruz-SASH (in Spain we call it Venera) and when I mentioned that it was possible to put some eagles of a lower category , I was referring to a third class of 1937. In my previous message I said first class without realizing it, although it must be said that, according to the measures described by e-medals, it could really be a first class placed in a SASH to pass the set for a Great Cross. A Great SASH Cross must measure 60mm and I think that e-medals speaks of 50mm.

But I already made it clear that this is really not what I think about the copy for sale in e-medals. I sincerely believe that the eagles cut and then welded again are the ones that originally came in that cross ... you only have to read all my messages to see that I put an explanatory note later ... it would not be logical to remove the eagles of a category lower to put in the denazified cross and also cut the crowns of oak leaves at the height of the talons of the eagle ... as I said, I think they tried to denazify it by removing only the oak crowns and, as it did not look good or they thought better , they ended up desoldering the complete eagles ... that's why they appear two eagles with the crowns of cut oak leaves and two complete eagles ... the 4 eagles with evidences of having been cut with a metal saw and later welded.

**marisca lrommel** · 12-08-2017, 02:30 AM

As for the markings, I know these:

- "935" on the needles of the second-class Orders of 1937 first design

- "SILBER 800" on the back of the Order with Star and Big Cross star of 8 tips of 1937 second design (Deschler)
.
- "900" in the bottom part of the cross profile of third class, first class and Grand Cross SASH of 1937 second design (Deschler).

- "SILBER 900" on the back of the second class orders of 1937 second design (Deschler).

- "900" in the lower part of the profile of the first design medal (interior of the cross with points)

- "900" on the needles of the second class orders, orders with star, Grand Cross of 1939.

-Different types of markings such as "TT", "L", "U", etc. in the upper part of the ball that is on the fan in the third class crosses of 1939

- "900 21" on the needles of the second class orders, Order with Star and Grand Cross of 1943.

- "900 21" on the rings of the orders of fifth class of 1943.

- "900" in the ring and "5" in the upper part of the fan in the fifth class orders of 1943.

- "900 L / 50" in the orders purchased as replacement in the back of the second class of 1943.

- "(835 PR. MÜNZE BERLIN" in the lower part of the profile of the silver medals version of 1937 second design.

- "MÜMZANT WIEN A 835" in the lower part of the profile in some medals silver version of 1943 (legend with Latin characters)

- "30" on the rings of silver and bronze medals of 1943 (legends with Latin characters)

**marisca lrommel** · 12-08-2017, 03:04 AM

The publication “Das Dritte Reich”, “Das fünfte Jahr 1937”

Attached Files

REDUCIDA.jpg (183.1 KB, 87 views)

**marisca lrommel** · 12-08-2017, 03:06 AM

Grand cross sash
Note: In the publication there is an error because it shows the Star of the Great Cross with 6 points ... the Star of the Great Cross has 8 points

Attached Files

SASH 1937.jpg (132.3 KB, 84 views)

**marisca lrommel** · 12-08-2017, 03:09 AM

Order with star

Attached Files

**marisca lrommel** · 12-08-2017, 03:10 AM

1St STUFE

Attached Files

PRIMERA CLASE 1937.jpg (196.7 KB, 85 views)

**marisca lrommel** · 12-08-2017, 03:11 AM

2Nd STUFE

Attached Files

SEGUNDA CLASE 1937.jpg (116.1 KB, 84 views)

**marisca lrommel** · 12-08-2017, 03:12 AM

3Rd STUFE

Attached Files

TERCERA CLASE 1937.jpg (143.2 KB, 85 views)

**marisca lrommel** · 12-08-2017, 03:13 AM

MEDAL or MEDAILLE in german

Attached Files

MEDALLAS 1937.jpg (86.7 KB, 85 views)

**marisca lrommel** · 12-08-2017, 03:19 AM

Difference in size between a Grand Cross and a first class (Andreas collection from medalnet.net)

Attached Files

SASH-DAO.jpg (127.3 KB, 87 views)

**Peter J.** · 12-08-2017, 09:53 AM

J-F,

The inquiry in my initial post was two-folded i.e. the actual cross and how it was represented in the sales thread. By judging your comments, you've now realized it could not have been a 1.Klasse (it was presented as 1.class/1.Klasse), when the correct description should be 1.Grade/1.Stufe. This cross was also accompanied by a sash for a Grand Cross, which we both know is not correct. On top of that, there was nothing indicating the cross was tampered with. I might be wrong about the choice of word, by I think it was "excellent" or something in that vicinity. After being pulled from the site, it suddenly reappeared, now presented as a Grand Cross. Really! Is this what we can expect from a dealer with 35 years of experience.

As for the cross, I think your account for the de-nazification is correct. However the suggestion about the use of eagles from a 3.Stufe 1937 did not seem plausible, as they are 10% smaller. The illustration of the de-nazified fanned 1.Stufe is of course illuminating, should the purpose be to present an illustration of such a phenomena, but it actually added to my confusion. You've now corrected that to the eagles from the actual cross and we are in agreement.

As a side-note for the de-nazifcation, there is an easier way to accomplish that. I once had a 1.Stufe with drilled out swastikas, leaving the remaining parts of the cross intact.

Markings! With the risk of being a nag, PLEASE use the concept "Stufe" when appropriate

and I can assure you, there are several other markings besides the ones presented here.

cheers
Peter
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**marisca lrommel** · 12-09-2017, 06:45 AM

Hi Peter.

I agree with you that more than one seller with 35 years of experience and a certain reputation in the world of collector's militaria is expected. I did not know that this same cross had already been published without ribbon and that later it has been republished with a SASH of the Grand Cross ... this situation speaks very badly of this dealer and it detracts a lot of credibility.

As for the assumption of putting eagles of a 1937 third class or stage (Stufe) to a 50 mm Cross (this is the measure that announces E-Medals) I have to tell you that there is not much difference in the measurements (see attached photos of two examples of my collection).

The announcement that you have made of other markings in the Order of the German Eagle has managed to awaken in me the most extreme attention to this thread because I would like to know those marks that would suppose a complement to my knowledge about the Order of the German Eagle ... We already know that in this hobby, every day you learn something new. I will be very attentive

Attached Files

**marisca lrommel** · 12-09-2017, 06:46 AM

..

Attached Files

IMGP0057.JPG (202.2 KB, 68 views)

**Peter J.** · 12-09-2017, 12:11 PM

Hi J-F-,

The sash for the Grand Cross was presented in the original post as well. The transformation from an alleged 1.class/1.Klasse to a Grand Cross occured in the re-listing of the set. I'll return to those additional markings, once I've had time to write down my thoughts on the various crosses.

As for the size of the eagles, I merely used mathematics and the assumption the different sizes differ proportionally i.e. 50mm-10%=45mm.

catch you later
Peter

**marisca lrommel** · 12-09-2017, 12:21 PM

Hi peter.

I do not say that you are not right Peter ... you are absolutely right ... the eagles vary a few millimeters but nobody who does not know perfectly this decoration would realize this lack of measures. Anyway, I still think that the eagles on the cross of e-medals are the original ones of that cross, although in no way can a cross of 50 mm be qualified as a Grand Cross, so I give you the reason when you accuse e-medals. fraudulent assembly medals

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