Gau Thuringen Remaked

[Matthew]

The dies seem to exhibit some rusting which means they would transfer a less than perfect image. Even if the rust is removed by polishing, it would alter the finished example enough as to create a distinctive difference between them and those originally produced.
Richard V

Hard to assess anything from those weak pics but typically the tooling would have to be severely corroded or cracked to leave an impression of the damage on the product. Damages on the material used to produce however would transfer almost 100% (different gauge sheet etc.). That's of course going on the premise that we're looking at the original tooling.

[ErichS]

Do you see number punches included with the sale?

The number fonts used on originals would be most difficult to replicate.

[Matthew]

The number fonts used on originals would be most difficult to replicate.

I concur. But that still leaves out the unnumbered ones.

cheers
Matt

[Bob Hritz]

I sure am glad I don't have one. If this die set gets into the wrong hands, they will be common as dirt. If they don't attain perfection, they will still sell like hotcakes for $50.00 each leaving a huge profit for each one struck. How many 'ground dug' examples can we expect to see?

Bob Hritz

[ErichS]

No need to panic as of yet. If fakes are made from these dies they won't be perfect and those with originals should be able to tell the differences with careful study. There are man fake awards that are close to originals but after close examination they can be weeded out. We as collectors must be vigilant like always,for the next super fake to appear on the market.

[Richard]

I sure am glad I don't have one. If this die set gets into the wrong hands, they will be common as dirt. If they don't attain perfection, they will still sell like hotcakes for $50.00 each leaving a huge profit for each one struck. How many 'ground dug' examples can we expect to see?

Bob Hritz

I can see the problem with ground dug examples popping up. Here is the picture Matthew supplied of the die with what appears to be rust forming on the die. Though it is minimal, it will have an impact on the end product, either in roughness exhibited under minimal magnification on the finished badge or other appearance differences caused should the die be polished to remove the rust. It also appears many of these dies have rust issues from minimal to very apparent. This would mean they would never produce an identical version of what they used to make.
Richard V

[Matthew]

Small corrosion on the die can be fixed with no big problems- without going into too much detail- the corroded areas (where corrosion left the surface with voids) can be 'filled' with more material thus creating a smooth strike.
Erich: while it is true that most fakes can be weeded out from the originals- when the original tooling becomes available there is little hope to apply all the knowledge we have with success.
Not that I am in the market to buy another but I hope I am wrong nonetheless.

[Bob Hritz]

Fakes, sold as originals, fulfill a demand and keep the prices of originals down. Many collectors do not ever do the work necessary to keep current on each generation of fake.

Look at Staegmaier making military badges. Thousands sell and someone is buying them. The forums have a lot of time spent exposing them as fakes, but new types come out every month. They would not be made if customers were looking for copies. They are made to fulfill the demand of those seeking original, period pieces.

Imagine prices if there were no copies. They would be much higher as there are only a finite amount of originals.

Bob Hritz

[juoneen]

After reading this thread , nobody has mentioned the old way we started the hobby, and that was buying first hand....and as much as there are nonbelievers that it is not truly possible in the world today, there are still people everywhere that throw nazi collectibles into the garbage even today, every month somewhere in the world...forget the retail aspect, and forget even considering buying from old collectors for the big buck, the only way to hunt if first hand...and find what you find instead of thinking you can just order the rare stuff, and lay back, and get kudos from your folly, while these people (who by the way still put their pants on the same way as we all do, can just be buried with their stuff, for all I care, they don't impress me one bit...they just got lucky, and so can you...so get off your duffs, and listen to the one who knows that prices have gotten to the point that I would like to see dealers go broke, cause nobody will pay their crazy prices because they are out hunting the good stuff. .The more I harp on the subject, the more threads I see where others are finally getting the point, and realizing it is a tougher road to haul, but much more satisfying, and when one has taken the time and work to score that way, it is the only way for the young , the newby, and even the old fellow collectors to gain ground over the ones who did it so long ago,who now can afford with retirement money, to just score anything they want, where as in the 60's were the type who scammed their crapola to get the cash to buy the vet found items....and never made the debt right to those who they burned regardless of it being deliberate or on purpose, so if you just spend half the time you would spend online hunting , and do it in person, you will see, I do know what I am talking about...cheers to those who still believe, and know that these ARE the good old days....so do not dispair....as what you believe is your reality, don't fall for the rhetoric about only the rich can buy this stuff...(please send my comission for good advice to your favorite charity...)

[der-hase-fee]

Do you see number punches included with the sale?

No, why would that make a difference ?

And if they came from someone using them to produce copies (or technically originals from different time frame) do you think that person would just give them up ? Maybe got tired of making upwards of 1.5K a pop?
That is what makes no sense whatsoever. After all- do you see K&Q dies floating around for sale?

Maybe he died and the heirs are not in the same business ? Your imagination must be quite limited.

BTW- if they are the original dies I sure hope my badge WAS struck using them.

... and continues raising in value "exponentially" ?

These days provenance counts for little as few recent threads have shown us.

You must have a strange idea what provenance is. I agree that the recent "vet acquired" stories do not hold any water.

[Matthew]

(quote)No, why would that make a difference ?(unquote)

Difference would be those are not your ordinary run of the mill font punches (number 7 is a good way to picture that). While as not difficult as making a whole new badge from scratch it is still a little more difficult than 'making a new one'



(Quote)Maybe he died and the heirs are not in the same business ? Your imagination must be quite limited.(Unquote)


Aha, and a decade and a half before he died he went senile mixing up sheets of silver with tin painted silver that's why we see those badges surfacing as real once a while



(Quote)... and continues raising in value "exponentially" ? (Unquote)

Sure...it's not like its the tin badge so why wouldn't it?



(Quote)You must have a strange idea what provenance is. I agree that the recent "vet acquired" stories do not hold any water.(Unquote)

Familiar with Maurice grouping?

[Military]

Does anyone know how much the 186 in bronze was sold for today?

Mil

[ErichS]

For me personally I'm not too worried because I won't be adding another GTB to my collection. But for future collectors, not so sure.

[Matthew]

22

My, my... so a silver 22 surfaces. This time a real one but sure puts the 'gold' 22 as pictured in Gottlieb book into perspective.
Not that I believed the 'gold grade' story to begin with but what are the odds of this?
The set of dies are back too but I don't think it's going to affect the market of those badges much.

cheers

Matt

[ErichS]

Hi Matt,

The silver # 22 is right as rain and I'm not a fan of the so called gold version either.