A couple of Cultural items

[Minnesinger]

I will see if I can get a hold of someone who had with the weberei that made cloths and wallhangings into the year 2000 in the coming days. It shouldn't be impossible to get some catalogs of their products I hope.

[Thorsten B.]

Yes, would be good if you could find out if my depicted tapestry with the tree of life and double-headed eagle is a motif used or at least developed after 1945 or DHW-period since just from examining it it must be very old.

[Steve T]

I will see if I can get a hold of someone who had with the weberei that made cloths and wallhangings into the year 2000 in the coming days. It shouldn't be impossible to get some catalogs of their products I hope.

You can download one from the website Michael Fay took the picture from and posted now if you want to.

Do ask for some older ones if you do communicate with the Grandson of the factory founder. The Grandson took over the management of the factory in '79.

Look here: Brochure 1979

[Steve T]

Nice one. From the DDR I assume by the strict letters and ähren?

I don't know, but I would guess so as the DDR seem to have continued the craft more than the west.

[Thälmannpionier]

very interesting discovery of the Photo with the Women from the 70s just making a huge roll with that pattern fabric
well done and shocking news at the same time!!!

already wondered why so many tapestrys were poping up from nowhere the last year....and also wonder how many other patterns they used to produce in masses after 1945!
I could imagine most likely all of the patterns (DHW Tapestry patterns except ones that show forbidden symbols)) were produced very late after 1945! Because there is nothing wrong or offensive about them!! and therefore was no Reason to forbid it after 1945!!!even more it probably still was a very popular Item and Motive for people (farmers, village people etc) in the 50s, 60s, 70s and so on...so you do the math


Andreas

[Thorsten B.]

What I offer or show here is the harvest of more than five years of hunting these gems - so if they would be so easy to aquire I ought to have dozens of them which is not the case, although I tried to get as many as possible.

Regarding the use of symbols: on the one hand you are right and on the other hand you are not.

Smithies in Solingen were producing at least the same amounts - if not more - of daggers and swords after the 8th of May 1945 than they already did before the surrender just because the enormous hunger for taking a fine untouched piece of former TR home had to be fed!
In the rough economical time with no real and stable currency after 1945 a lot of things were possible.

And that to such extent that the department of public prosecution had to send the police in these smithies to persuade them that indeed the Third Reich has come to an end and that they therefore finally have to stop the production - and that was in 1953!

Then the machines were partially sold to foreign countries and the production went on - same goes for quite a number of badges, medals and other decorations.

[Thälmannpionier]

- so if they would be so easy to aquire I ought to have dozens of them which is not the case, although I tried to get as many as possible.

Regarding the use of symbols: on the one hand you are right and on the other hand you are not.

.

I go out "hunting" very often and for the last half year kept my eyes open for this stuff and I have to admit...I have not seen a single one in real by now
just on the Net.

but I guess there are many many still outthere...hanging in the Gartenlaube of a old Couple;-)

question: if there are much later Tapestrys outthere from the 70s or maybe later..wouldnt they glow as hell under UV??

[Thorsten B.]

Furthermore:

These wall tapestries are of very high quality and were never cheap.

For producing/faking such a piece it would need more than for example one skillful wood carver who can fake SS MK boxes for selling them with high profit.

The pattern and it´s construction visable on the pic you are refering to was not meant to be finally a wall tapestry - due to it´s outward appearance it was stuff made for upholstery, slipcover for the bedroom and seat cover, maybe even for cars.

The 50ties and 60ties surely had a nasty taste regarding the use and look of interieur decoration and they mixed relatively traditional patterns and colours with almost everything imaginable - therefore it was called space-age or just retro-look.

[Capt. R]

You can download one from the website Michael Fay took the picture from and posted now if you want to.

Do ask for some older ones if you do communicate with the Grandson of the factory founder. The Grandson took over the management of the factory in '79.

Look here: Brochure 1979

Steve, you have turned up a gem here. These are beautiful, quality products and I adode the designs. But their resurgence has fooled many a knowledgeable collector and I am a bit disapoointed that they are not DHW nor connected with the ss in any way. It is too bad. I really enjoyed the idea of having surrepptitious ss items displayed in plain view! haha! Will someone care to do a translation that makes sense into English? Thanks!

[Etienne B.]

Quite a interesting research,but a little bit disturbing though

[maestro]

[Michael Fay]

I'm not taking any stance, all I said was the name Bernward, a coincidence perhaps that there is a St. Bernward.

Yes, of course Christianity borrows designs from other cultures, Christian or not, that is fact.

I merely told you the pattern name and yes, it is a fact, I checked my notes. Does this mean its Christian for a fact? No it doesn't. Did I say its Christian? No. Have I suggested it's pagan? No. Did I say its from the 1930's? No. You're guessing I'm saying its from the 1930's, well I've not said that it is, but my guess would be that it's very likely from the around 1920/30/40 something like that.

You said its time for people to do their own research and I agree with you, I always have. All I did was tell you the name of it, something I thought you might like to know as you have one. I was curious of the name because its the name of a Bishop.

You sound angry,
In my opinion you have a habit of being vague .. perhaps in good faith in trying to be careful...and have an appearance of neutrality... but i usually am not sure what you are saying .
As you were vaguely seeming to cast a Christian overlay on my rug, I naturally wanted to know exactly what you were claiming to tell me.
So I needed real clarification.

Thanks, ...it appears you are in conjecture mode. That is fine.

As for your subtle remark as to it being time to do our own research, yes, but if you state somthing ,then be clear about it the first time. Hmmm?
After all it is hard to find evidence for or against an arguement put forth by you (or anyone else) that is in essence, unclear, vague and amorphous.

[Michael Fay]

You can download one from the website Michael Fay took the picture from and posted now if you want to.

Do ask for some older ones if you do communicate with the Grandson of the factory founder. The Grandson took over the management of the factory in '79.

Look here: Brochure 1979

Pardon me Steve, but I did not download from anywhere. it was sent to me as an email attachment from concerned parties about modern teppich being sold as authentic TR rugs. I still have no idea where it comes from.

[Michael Fay]

welcome to the jungle

Welcome to the jungle,maestro... and watch out for wolves in WAF clothing!

I think there may be more than one wolf on this thread, by the way.

[Michael Fay]

Hag-All

I think I've seen it in an HAG-AL AL-HAG or maybe Ostara issue. It was anything but christian. Unfortunately I have them tucked away at the moment so I can't check it right away.

Minnesinger,
I have a few of both those titles myself. Let me know if you find that design in them.
As you say, they are as non traditionally Christian and pagan as they can come!

a strike against the theory of a "christian" design on my rug.

When i have time i will go through all mine....I have about 30. but no time these days.

Thanks for the hot tip, Minnesinger!