3 Deutscher Orden in one lot!!!!! Rarest of The Rare

[Chris Obermeyer]

Thank you, I now have no doubt that this ugly thing is a bad fake.

Would you be so kind and share your knowledge and tell us why you say that? I mean technical arguments and not what you think, that´s the purpose of this forum!

Thank you..

[der-hase-fee]

The worst GPB fakes are closer to the original than the one that has been used on this THING.

[Chris Obermeyer]

[QUOTE=der-hase-fee;8298822]The worst GPB fakes are closer to the original than the one that has been used on this THING.


Is this all you can comment about the Deutscher Orden? I'm disappointed but I have something that can be useful to you:

Aristophanes once wrote, roughly translated; "Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but STUPID lasts forever."

Cheers,
C. Obermeyer

[der-hase-fee]

Thank you, just as I expected you have nothing to contribute but a personal insult. Proof of how shallow your knowledge in respect to the Deutscher Orden really is.

[Military]

The worst GPB fakes are closer to the original than the one that has been used on this THING.

Hi Chris,

With due respect, I also concur with der-hase-fee that the badge you have just shown does not seem good. The details do not conform to those from the TR period nor for such a badge.

Mil

[Stan]

The hardware is 1950's Souval and the case is pure fantasy.

Stan

[Mark Costa]

I have to agree with Stan. No original German Order I have ever seen has a swastika that touches the outer edge of the white area. On originals it never touches the red circle. The case is trying real hard to mimic an SS officers belt buckle. Screams fake. And no Grand Cross star ever existed. Those are also fantasy pieces.

Mark Costa

[Chris Obermeyer]

I have to agree with Stan. No original German Order I have ever seen has a swastika that touches the outer edge of the white area. On originals it never touches the red circle. The case is trying real hard to mimic an SS officers belt buckle. Screams fake. And no Grand Cross star ever existed. Those are also fantasy pieces.

Mark Costa

Is this the truth Mark? Based on what? Did you notice the quality of the metal (SILVER) and the high polishing of the piece? Did you see the way the Eagles are built on the cross (NOT separately). Maybe the high quality of the enamel didn't impress you. Or all I got is a bad picture ? What you're trying to do here is something else, I am not the one stupid here. Read this thread all over again! What can I say, that I am not a professional photographer and so the decoration is "false " based on that as they said without any useful technical information and that violates the COC of this forum and I do feel insulted! Comparing a Deutscher Orden with a mere GPB, was that a joke?

Perhaps you can tell by the huge amount of experience handling these original decorations and I bet, you never saw one in hand.

Know this, EVERYTHING that comes from the E-medals I assume it's not good it's not worth my time !

THE TRUTH IS THAT THOSE BRONZE MONSTRUOSITIES ARE FAKES, PERIOD!

And I defy anyone to prove that I or Doyle are wrong. He just found the First Class belonging to Reichsarbeitsführer Konstantin Hierl. Go figure.

C. Obermeyer

[Mark Costa]

Chris:

Calling people stupid is very rude. I gave you my opinions of the German Order you showed based on examining originals over the years. I would hope you are banned from this forum. You have been rude to just about everyone who disagrees with you on everything. This forum is for discussions, not for being rude and nasty to people who do not agree with you. I have had enough of your crap on this forum. That is why I rarely join in on anything that you are involved with. So long. I refuse to stoop to your level. Good bye.

Mark Costa

[BobI]

[QUOTE=Chris Obermeyer;8298919]

The worst GPB fakes are closer to the original than the one that has been used on this THING.


Is this all you can comment about the Deutscher Orden? I'm disappointed but I have something that can be useful to you:

Aristophanes once wrote, roughly translated; "Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but STUPID lasts forever."

Cheers,
C. Obermeyer

It seems to me you either have an ulterior motive or have been misled by the person who is teaching you. I have watched this for some time just trying to figure out your angle. Not sure which scenario is better or worse
Bob

[der-hase-fee]

@ Chris Obermeier: If you or you buddy wanted to get another opinion, maybe you’d want to send the THING to Jo Rivett for a microscoping inspection ? I can imagine he would love to check it out for you. Looking forward to watching the result on YouTube.

[Erich B.]

We can disagree about these awards but the discussion will be useful only when the tone is civil. Please direct the comments only toward the awards and not to each other when posting here.
Are there any of these elusive awards known with valid provenance?
Erich

[Chris Obermeyer]

We can disagree about these awards but the discussion will be useful only when the tone is civil. Please direct the comments only toward the awards and not to each other when posting here.
Are there any of these elusive awards known with valid provenance?
Erich

Dear Erich B.

First of all I would like to thank you for your intermediation on this topic.

Now answering your question directly and objectively, YES, there are documents that can prove that the late Father of Mr. Doyle bought the award directly from General Heydrich's widow, Lina Heydrich in 1971, including a picture of Mr. Doyle's father with young Mr. Doyle at the age of 8 and Lina Heydrich and since then the Doyle Family has established ties of friendship and cordiality with the Family Heydrich. This same situation is happening now as I write, because Doyle is closing the deal now with the award that belonged to the Reichsarbeitsfüher Konstantin Hierl, this is almost a done deal. This will be his third First Class ORIGINAL Deutscher Orden with provenance, the last and accepted prototype included. I do already have pictures of Hierl`s award however strictly following the orders of my friend for more than 30 years I can not and will not post photos here
but I can declare, to the best of honesty, that both decorations (Heydrich and Hierl) are absolutely identical in every aspect.

I would also like to declare, with the same respect for the truth that the studies developed by Mr Doyle, that I myself and a few other people who have collaborated or assisted are 100% authentic!
Although I have already said that a lot of things have not been solved which means that we do not know everything and YES Mr. Doyle and I know much more than what has been said but I have never denied it. So, YES we are holding back a lot of information.

About that Third Class, someone said it could have been done by Souval in the 50's. What could be more absurd? The dies were bought and never paid for by Souval directly from the company of Wilhelm Deumer.. The production of this award did not begin before 1963 and was even made by former Deumer officials, as reported accordingly or as a result of a long investigation, Doyle's specialty.

Another person suggested an "X-Ray" examination, a ludicrous idea without any sense. However Mr. Doyle suggestion is that this men should take all bronze fakes he can find (quite a task) and examine all those with "X-Rays" and post the results on YouTube. By the way two experts have already studied all the Deutscher Orden in Mr. Doyle's collection and nothing suspect has been found. One of them was a qualified engineer in metallurgy the other a specialist in patina. Although the examinations are still not precise enough both suggested that these decorations were manufactured between 1940 and 1944 including the Grosskreuz completre set that some not well informed said without any prove whatsoever.

Finally, Mr. Doyle is not worried whether the financial or economic aspect has been affected, he thinks the truth has to prevail.

Best Regards,

C. Obermeyer.

[Chris Obermeyer]

Just as an example for you to understand Mr. Doyle's seriousness in collecting, look at the photos below. It is an authentic Star of the Grand Cross of the Imperial Order of the Roses of 1856 adorned with diamonds, emeralds and ruby, all 22 kt Gold and that belonged to the Viscount of Mauá. See the official evaluation of Hermann Historica. Have you Gentlemen seen one of those?

[Chris Obermeyer]

The official document and estumate value. That was only an opening bid, the hammer price could have been over 150.000 Euros. Cheers.