AH signed photo with silver frame

[praubal]

I think there's enough people who support the fact that fake AH silver frames do exist, contrary to what praubal has said. I hope that forum users can now see that his knowledge is not as great as he himself thinks and that future declarations of his, without any back-up, should not be taken seriously.

Yes.....your usual coterie of lapdogs who will always bow to you lol.

It should also be noted the reason for the frames not to be reproduced is the LAW. Falsely replicating assay marks is a crime...I believe Englands assay office is the only place that you can have your silver proofed...im sure other countries have the same regulation.

You have of course blown more and more hot air into your ego bubble...but despite your desperate efforts to belittle me the result had been that you still have no proof....You still didnt address the Pohl tunic reply and seemingly ftom my inbox you have as many detractors as you have supporters.

[max history]

Yes.....your usual coterie of lapdogs who will always bow to you lol.


You have of course blown more and more hot air into your ego bubble...but despite your desperate efforts to belittle me the result had been that you still have no proof....You still didnt address the Pohl tunic reply and seemingly ftom my inbox you have as many detractors as you have supporters.

[Lloyds]

[QUOTE=praubal;7818129]

It should also be noted the reason for the frames not to be reproduced is the LAW. Falsely replicating assay marks is a crime...I believe Englands assay office is the only place that you can have your silver proofed...im sure other countries have the same regulation.

Why cant the frames be made and marked with continental silver proof marks in the UK you just stamp them no problem with the law and 800, 925 stamps and others are openly on sale and provided the items are made in silver again it isnt a problem The only legal problem would be marking them with English proof marks (but who would want that) but if you wanted them with UK proof marks you just take them to the assay office and provided they are silver its no problem
The Guy who made all the AH stuff and batons.pilots badges with diamonds Knights Cross and many other little treasures operated in the US and UK about 20 years back and he DID make the Frames the napkin ring dies were up for sale last year from a guy in Birmingham as well ae the AH eagle die used on the frames

[max history]

Thank you Lloyds. A sensible and valid point completely overlooked by the opposing viewpoint. Be careful you are not labelled as one of my lapdogs like all the other members who disagree with praubal.

[max history]

They are even faking the frames now.

No...they are not.

Simple......Show me a fake....they dont exist. Imposdibke to get right and just no demand

In reply, a past post from Jeff Clark, a very well respected member of this forum who certainly can't be described as one of my "lapdogs."

These dedicated frames were a National or State award, and not given by Hitler on behalf of the NS Party. These state frames were given by him as Head of State. The official name for these was “Staatsrahmen”.
The tradition of giving photos by the head of state was already in place with Emperor Wilhelm the 2nd and continued after Hitler was gone by presidents of the Federal Republic of Germany.
These frames were handmade by at least 2 makers. Troost was the designer of the frames and the cassettes. The most common maker mark is FHW, the Munich goldsmith firm of Franz and Hermann Wandinger. The Berlin jeweler firm of Schröder also supplied pieces for the frame construction.
Since these were handcrafted, each frame can show slight variations. They were not machine mass-produced. The exact number that was given out is not known, but an order of 100 was placed early in 1936 and another 100 was urgently ordered on August 21 1936 and given out before the end of the year.
The cassette cases came in red leather with a gilted embossed eagle emblem and also a brown leather with a silver embossed eagle. The meaning and difference in color and style is not known.
As most items from the NS period, these frames have been (are being) reproduced. The quality is such that the fakes can be detected by those familiar with originals. The dedicated signed photo fakes are more numerous and not as easily detected, since Hitler’s signature changed over the years and the forgers are very good. Charles Hamilton once said something to the effect that Hitler probably signed 20,000 documents in his lifetime and 50,000 of them are in the United States today.
Original signed photos typically have the Hoffmann mark to the back of the photo. In my opinion, Hitler would not have ink signed & dedicated any photograph with a pencil signature to the front; he would not have signed over another persons signature.
Hitler’s autograph is one of the most commonly forged signature of all time, buyer beware!

During Hitler’s Third Reich, for unknown reasons, there are at least 5 different variations of the silver frames known:
a) Frame 30,5 x 39,5 cm, without eagle emblem or monogram,
b) Frame 12,5 x 22,5 cm, on top one golden eagle emblem similar to the one used during the period of the “Weimar Republic”, but with swastika in its claws, left of this an “A” and right of this a “H”.
c) Frame approximately 23 x 32 cm, stair step profile – each side has 3 steps inwards, on which an eagle emblem similar to the type of 1936 is placed, whose oak leaf wreath is flanked by the letters “A” and “H”.
d) Frame approximately 18 x 23 cm, on top an eagle emblem of the type of 1936
e) Fire-gilded frame with 12 amethysts jewelled, recipient was 1939 the Italian
Ambassador Attolico in Berlin

Source for some of above, article by Klaus D. Patzwall

I rest my case.

[praubal]

This is most entertaining....

All this hearsay......and no corpus delecti.......


Like UFO's......many believers......NO PROOF.


Now that really must be my last word on the matter. Thanks to mr histiry for your most exhaustive and copious input.....must have taken hours out of your day....

wish i had the time or interest to read it but sadly i cannot use it other than at night when im finding it hard to sleep.

[max history]

This is most entertaining....

All this hearsay......and no corpus delecti.......


Like UFO's......many believers......NO PROOF.


Now that really must be my last word on the matter. Thanks to mr histiry for your most exhaustive and copious input.....must have taken hours out of your day....

wish i had the time or interest to read it but sadly i cannot use it other than at night when im finding it hard to sleep.

It's plain you are also a little short of knowledge about evidence as well as Third Reich memorabilia. No wonder you never provide any evidence for your sweeping statements. Somebody actually seeing something is direct evidence, not hearsay. It matters not if you believe them. Look it up.
No need to thank me, I've enjoyed it. I have the time, especially when it's exposing someone like you.

[max history]

Regardless of praubal's inane waffle, there is a very interesting thread about AH silverware, including frames, at http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=643022 A good read for anyone seriously interested.
Max.

[August von Mackensen]

One question regarding the eagles, on a few frames the eagle is looking to the left sideand on a few others, the eagle is looking to the right side, is there a reason for?

Thanks

Matt

[Br. James]

Our colleague, August von Mackensen, proposes a question that has interested me for quite a while, and the only answer I can come up with is just the possibility that the Political Leader Cap Eagle expresses an evolution of design: NSDAP Cap Eagles -- M-1927, M-1934 and M-1939 all feature an eagle which looks to it's left, while the short-lived M-1936 Cap Eagle looks to it's right. Perhaps other eagles, such as the ones on AH Presentation Silver Frames, express the time period during which they were made, depending upon the fashion in favor during that period?

Just a thought,

Br. James

[August von Mackensen]

Thanks for your kind words,

sounds possible to me, regarding the eagle, it is really complex to change the toolings for this, anyway, what eagles are the newer ones seen from the timeframe, the ones who are looking to the right, or the ones who are looking to the left side?

Thanks

Matt

[Br. James]

The massive uniform code revision of 1939 provided the last change to the PL Cap Eagle; that design revision lengthened the wingspan of the eagle just a bit and changed the direction of the eagle's head back to it's left.

Br. James