Companies collaberating

[robert60446]

My theory is that these crimped in hardware styles that we see on these badges is another "Gablonzer" method. It speeds up the attaching of reverse hardware and allows it to be done by unskilled labor. You take hinge "A" and place it in hole "B" and then operate the machine and walla, out pops a perfect crimp every time. Same with the catch. Beats the heck out of the old gas torch soldering method which required skilled labor to get it right. These two styles we see both operate under the same principle.
I believe that everything was made in Gablonz, the badges, the hardware etc... and the assembly.

Don,
I agree with you here in 100%.
Please read the quote about Association of Gablonz Industries from their today's brochure (hopefully i got correct Gablonez Industries):
The Association of Gablonz Industries is an efficient employers' and specialist trade organisation for small and medium-sized companies with approximately 100 members. The firms are highly specialised and together they represent a wide spectrum of competencies:

• Metal, glass and plastic processing
• Surface finishing
• Wholesale and technical services

• Fashion jewellery, souvenirs and giveaways
• Sophisticated technical products, including finishing and complete systems

• Design, construction, prototype construction, production of large and small series

The network of the Gablonz Industries comprised a vast variety of craft enterprises and factories as well as service providers and commercial houses. In 1938 this added up to over 4.000 enterprises.

[robert60446]

From the same web page about Gablonez Industries:

Company profile <table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td colspan="2" valign="top" width="100%">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="x2" valign="top" width="50%">Scholze Adolf
Paradiesstraße 23
73525 Schwäbisch Gmünd, Germany
</td> <td class="x2" valign="top" width="50%">Phone: +49 (0)7171 2282
Fax: +49 (0)7171 38719
e-mail: scholze-roscho@t-online.de </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="20">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="x2" valign="top" width="50%">Main field of activities/products:
· diadems crowns
· carnival medals
· rings
· moulding making
· clip earrings
· stampings
· prisms
· rings eyelets
· buckles
· pins split pins
· injection moulding
· punched folded articles
· punched folded parts
· Injection moulding
· toolmaking

</td> <td>
</td></tr> </tbody> </table> <table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> </tr> </tbody> </table>

[Don D.]

Obviously Herr Scholze was forced to relocate after the war due to that area being ceded to the Czechs to compansate for the Soviet western expansion.

I see that JFS is listed also.
Don

[robert60446]

Obviously Herr Scholze was forced to relocate after the war due to that area being ceded to the Czechs to compansate for the Soviet western expansion.

I see that JFS is listed also.
Don

BINGO!!! Obviously some of the companies didn't make it...in 1938 it was more then 4000 members...

As far as I'm concerned the members of the AG Muk conglomerate could very well have been the known makers we are discussing right now. If this is correct than e.g. Muk 5 could well be either RK or JFS and this immediately would explain why a Muk 5 LGAB features the same set-up as an RK numbered GAB or a JFS numbered PAB.

I think we are really on to something here, problem is how to find proof for it.

And here is the proof for JFS membership:

<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td class="x2" valign="top" width="50%">Feix Josef Söhne Schmuckprägeteile GmbH & Co. KG
Gablonzer Ring 36
87600 Kaufbeuren-Neugablonz, Germany
</td> <td class="x2" valign="top" width="50%">Phone: +49 (0)8341 966840
Fax: +49 (0)8341 9668466
e-mail: schmuck@feix.de </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="20">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="x2" valign="top" width="50%">Main field of activities/products:
· metal beads
· stampings

</td> </tr></tbody> </table>

[Philippe DB]

Hi Robert,

Ok so far so good, but 4000 member companies in 1938 where does that leave us. Add the 7 unknown Muk companies to the two dozen known ones and that still leaves us with a couple of thousand possible makers

Well on the bright side the werern't all active in badge production I assume.

Anyway just image which very well known companies might be hiding behind the MuK numbers.

KR
Philippe

[Don D.]

I wonder if the chamber of commerce at New Gablonz might not have a list of companies that moved there in 1945-6? Perhaps they might even have records of maker marks etc...
Don

[robert60446]

I wonder if the chamber of commerce at New Gablonz might not have a list of companies that moved there in 1945-6? Perhaps they might even have records of maker marks etc...
Don

Don, for sure they do have a list and they do have records. What is nice now, we don't have to "go after" each of the individual company but we can talk to the association...

Ok so far so good, but 4000 member companies in 1938 where does that leave us. Add the 7 unknown Muk companies to the two dozen known ones and that still leaves us with a couple of thousand possible makers
Well on the bright side the werern't all active in badge production I assume.
Anyway just image which very well known companies might be hiding behind the MuK numbers.

Philippe,
Don't you love this hobby...

[Don D.]

"@ the IAB you posted is a JB&co. made in Thüringen"

Philippe, isn't Thuringen a state? Geographically speaking it is the next state west of Gablonz and there are some major railines that run from Dresden through Efurt, Jena, Gotha etc... Also has some of the old major training bases there. I remember seeing the Soviets doing night manuevers with Hind Ds conducting rocket attacks in the Gotha training area back in 1988.
Don

[Philippe DB]

Hi Don,

Really woudn't know. My geographical knowledge of Germany doesn't go much further than Nordrhein-Westfalen and Bavaria.

KR
Philippe

[robert60446]

Hi Don,
Really woudn't know. My geographical knowledge of Germany doesn't go much further than Nordrhein-Westfalen and Bavaria.

Philippe,
I guess your geography teacher isn't very proud of you right now.
Don, you are correct it is a state (very close to the Czech Republic).

[Frank Heukemes]

Hi guys,

Following this with interest, i have to make one comment. As much as I love creative thinking, the greek D theory probably might not be valid. To you Americans, greek letters are quite common, because of your fraternities. In Germany, greek letters are only known to mathematics students and people with a "humanistische" education, where ancient Greek and Latin (Latin ONLY would not be enough) is part of the final exams. These people were and are few. Secondly, the middle name, in this case the "D." is quite unimportant in Germany. In the logo, and assuming the triangle indeed does stand for "D", this letter would be the most important, emcompassing the more important major initials. All in all, this seems unlikely to me, although the approach was very good.

[Don D.]

Philippe, unfortuneantely for most of us, "our" Germany consists of the old Bundes republik. If I hadn't worked in the DDR I would not be familiar with the whole of Germany either.
Don

[colin davie]

I don't know if it will help, but from my list of Daybadge manufacturers, of those in Gablonz for the letters AS there is one Adolf Seidel, Gablonz a.N.
I will look to see if I have an actual badge of theirs as it might feature a logo as well as their name.
C

[robert60446]

Hi guys,
Following this with interest, i have to make one comment. As much as I love creative thinking, the greek D theory probably might not be valid. To you Americans, greek letters are quite common, because of your fraternities. In Germany, greek letters are only known to mathematics students and people with a "humanistische" education, where ancient Greek and Latin (Latin ONLY would not be enough) is part of the final exams. These people were and are few. Secondly, the middle name, in this case the "D." is quite unimportant in Germany. In the logo, and assuming the triangle indeed does stand for "D", this letter would be the most important, emcompassing the more important major initials. All in all, this seems unlikely to me, although the approach was very good.

Dear Frank,
Thanks for your explanation. I have to agree with your points. Connecting "D" with ∆ it was a stretch...But guys, please sit down before reading this:
Gablonz is appropriate for Tschechien (Tschechien covers traditionally the three historical countries Boehmen , Maehren and Czech Schlesien . All divided after the Second World). Gablonz was in the proximity of the land triangle (today Germany - Poland - nearby the Neissequelle).
So how about this theory for "our" triangle in the maker mark...So the triangle was more like a geographical union symbol for Gablonz area manufacturers...

[robert60446]

I don't know if it will help, but from my list of Daybadge manufacturers, of those in Gablonz for the letters AS there is one Adolf Seidel, Gablonz a.N.
I will look to see if I have an actual badge of theirs as it might feature a logo as well as their name.
C

Colin,
There is no Adolf Seidel today in Gablonzer Industire association. However there is Peter Seidel. Why this is interesting: please see this company logo below...

Firmenprofil <table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td colspan="2" valign="top" width="100%"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="x2" valign="top" width="50%">Seidel Peter GmbH
Sonnenstraße 29 - 31
87600 Kaufbeuren-Neugablonz
</td> <td class="x2" valign="top" width="50%">Telefon: +49 (0)8341 62440
Telefax: +49 (0)8341 62160
http://www.seidel-peter-gmbH.de</td></tr></tbody> </table>
And now on the same picture with our AS in triangle......Maybe the company name has been changed after the war from uncomfortable Adolf to Peter...or maybe Peter was the new owner...