The 3 Types of Rounder RK's

[Dietrich Maerz]

With the help of some members of this forum I was able to dive a little deeper into the subject of the infamous Rounder. I'm well aware of the controversy but I think this should not lead to me or anybody else to drop the subject.

Again, I'm not trying to convince anybody to run out and buy one and I also do not think that this is the last revelation. Please just take this as an example of what can be found out about this or any other subject if one tries (or should I say dare) so.

As we know, the evolution of the Ritterkreuz production went thru several stages. First there where the 'unregulated' early models. Zinc core, Neusilber frame and such. Then came the regulations and with it the silver frame, the iron core and a higher standard of finishing, especially the frosting. Later in the war this was less regulated as seen with the painted frosting of the late B-Type S&L and also with the painted frosting on the Lazy 2's.

This is a quite distinct time line and the S&L's and Juncker's show that clearly.

So I was very surprised to get my hands on a Rounder with silver plated brass. Only under good magnification can it be seen that the frame is not pure silver. A regular Rounder at a first glance.

[Dietrich Maerz]

This cross was already posted several times on this forum and nobody realized the underlying material. The cross was posted as an example for 'wear' on a Rounder.

Here is a typical spot showing the silver plating and the brass material underneath.

[Dietrich Maerz]

The cross shows what I hionestly would consider wear in the sense of "has been worn". But since ther is no measurable or common acceptable standard for this term I just post some pictures.

Here is the reverse lower beading.

[Dietrich Maerz]

And here in more detail. I think one can see the flatening of the beading as well as the worn plating.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Yes, it is true that the beading of a Rounder is not as deep and defined as the beading of a Juncker or Type A S&L. But only if one looks with a loup and is really looking for that. Under normal viewing distance there is absolutely nothing that would make one think that ther is a lower level of workmanship present. Was that a criteria? Or has it become a criteria?

[Dietrich Maerz]

There is mentioning of a brass core RK in Gordon's book on page 262, so this is not something new. Judging by the difficulty to see it with bare eyes and at casual glance I would say there are more out there and people don't know or realize. And with more I don't mean 'more Rounders', I mean more with brass frame. The one in the book is not a Rounder.

The paint looks different then the surface of the paint of my Rounder, but only an SEM analysis could tell us more here.

[Dietrich Maerz]

There's more to this cross and I might come to it later. At the moment I find it interesting to note that there is a different frame model. All Rounders I have seen so far (and handled) had the typical silver frame.

So I was even more exited when I got this cross for closer inspection.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Again, only closer examination shows what made me exited about this cross. This cross has the 'real' frosting, i.e. the chemical removal of the copper content of the silver frame to get a high grade and frosty looking surface. This is also found on high grade S&L and Juncker crosses, considered to be mid-war.

Mind you, the process is involving and not that easy to do.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Not only is the frosting done in this later droped procedure, but it is alo done to perfection. Just look at the straight lines between frosting and the later burnishing.

[Dietrich Maerz]

The beading is also frosted, exactly the same way as one can observe on an S&L or Juncker.

[Dietrich Maerz]

It is clear -understanding the process - that to much acid treatment will give a rough surface and to less will not give the frosted effect. This cross was done right.

[tom hansen]

Tim Clavert has a 3/4 ring cross with a brass core. It is not clear whether the frame is silver, neusilber, or silver plated over a different metal. I have a 3/4 ring with a brass core and silver plated brass frame. There are not many of these out there, so I have not heard of others with 3/4 rings have the brass cores/plated frames. So there are other RKs out there in brass.

[Dietrich Maerz]

The yellowish shine comes evidently from a protective laquer - something that can be observed on the later Rounder crosses also.

I will not show the 3rd model because that is the known one: regular unfrosted and unpainted silver frame and the same core as all the others.

I venture to say that some of the later crosses have painted frostinmg and I think that one of Allan's Rounder is such a model. But that needs to be confirmed.

So, what do we have here?

Do we have a confused or over-cautious faker who wanted to fake his model along the production lines of 'real' crosses - just to make sure? A faker that was such a thourough and detailled freak that he even dove heavy into the chemical frosting process and got it perfectly right, but messed up the corners (because some don't like those)?

Or is the evidence not a clear sign of a relatively long production run going thru the stages as other manufacturers also did?

Again, I'm not saying this is definite prove of pre-45. But it sure looks like it to me.

No matter what, at least this might show that if or when you dive deeper and deeper into a subject, you will find more answers and even more questions. However, a lot of previously wrong assumptions, statements, allegations can be diffused, but new might come up. There is still a huge amount of things to discover, one just needs to dive into it.

What do you think?

Dietrich

[George Stimson]

I think that you've done some very good work, Dietrich -- as usual!

[Peter Wiking]

Fantastic photos

Cheers.
Peter