West German Polizei

[Collectinsteve]

Thanks for those detailed pics, Gordon! Not surprisingly it looks nearly identical to BGS 1965 Einsatzanzug, which is different than the 1963 type. I don't have a jacket in my collection to compare against, but I suspect the differences are minor. The trousers look pretty much spot on from what I remember.

As promised, my restored Berlin shirt. Not exactly sure if the velcro rank is the right type, but it fits the backing that was on it and it matches the era of the arm badge. The shirt had a very clear "shadow" where the old badge was so I know for sure it has this type and not the oval type. My used badge is the correct type for a field uniform and it matched the stitch marks exactly so I'm pretty sure I have that right.



Now for a jacket which is similar to your Berlin one. This is, I think, Niedersachsen. At least it is pre 1976 and has signs of a shield type badge. No markings on the inside and the interior is not the same as the Berlin example. Color is consistent with Niedersachsen Einsatzanzug and other things that I have in my collection, so I'm sticking with that identification unless someone corrects me.







Steve

[Simon87]

Steve

Hey Steve,
this jacket also could be from BePo Schleswig-Holstein. But its hard to see the true colour on the picture. Is it similar with the bottlegreen Zeltbahn?

Regards
Simon

[Collectinsteve]

I have some S-H stuff from the early 70s and they used a blue green that is similar to BGS (see previous page). It seems to me closer to the Niedersachsen uniform I have.

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

Steve,

Colours seem to change in SH, as they do in all polizei organizations. Here is an S-H field uniform from an later period which is a straight up green. The above discussion is why I try to stay away from uniforms that do not still have the insignia intact.
The pants are dated 1994 and the tunic is not dated and could be from a different time period. Hard to tell with the pants faded more than the tunic. The tunic design certainly reflects the early filzlaus and the shoulders have a similar waterproof material in them that crinkles with age. However, the tunic does have the velcro patch for the newer rank insignia so who knows? This uniform came with a complete set of S-H uniforms when the previous owner switched to a blue uniform.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

#2 field S-H,

[Gordon Craig]

#3 Field S-H,

[Gordon Craig]

#4 Field S-H,

[Collectinsteve]

Hi Gordon,

Colours seem to change in SH, as they do in all polizei organizations.

True, but from my experience S-H that since the very early 1960s or late 1950s their uniforms designs and colors were pretty consistent. They also had a consistent history of sticking close to the BGS designs for Einsataz items. Similar colors too Which is why it's often hard to tell S-H stuff apart from BGS. Again, I'm talking about pre 1976 here. After 1976 everything (except perhaps some Berlin Polizei stuff) went to Moosegrün and had radically different uniform designs. Not to mention being more-or-less standardized across all of Germany.

Looking through my uniforms again I found that I also have a Nordrheinland-Westfalen Einsatzanzug that is very similar to both to your Berlin jacket and my mystery jacket. The color is almost identical, but of course NRW did not use a shield style badge in the pre-1976 days, so the mystery jacket is not NRW. The shield badge also rules out a number of other states as well. I also don't think there's any chance that it is S-H based on the uniforms I have from this period. Which means it's most likely that my mystery jacket is Niedersachsen from probably the late 1960s or early 1970s time period.

Here is an S-H field uniform from an later period which is a straight up green.

I'm sure your set is nicely matched date wise. I've got an unissued one of these S-H jackets dated 1996. It has the same wimpy zippers found on the BGS Einsatzanzug jacket with the arm pocket, so it's a minor difference from your jacket. My trousers, I just noticed, are dated 1984 and have triple open faced snap leg pockets. A design that was used by many other Einsatanzug around the same time. Dang, now I have to find a matching top and bottom for my mismatched top and bottom

From what I can tell the velcro arm rank became standard for pretty much all police forces sometime in either the late 1980s or early 1990s.

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

Steve,

Thanks for your comments. The more we learn the more research we seem to have to do. Not to mention the uniforms we have to look for!

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

With no comprehensive publications to consult, without us sharing information we'd be in a major information deficit. It also helps us know what to look for when we cruise through eBay!

Oh, and apologies for the horrid grammar in my previous post. Apparently I was very tired when I wrote that I know a native English speaker can hack through a bad post like that, but I feel bad for non-English speakers that have to try and make sense of it. So here is a short version:

1. My mystery jacket is probably Niedersachsen
2. I have a NRW uniform that is nearly identical to both the Niedersachsen and Berlin uniforms
3. Gordon's set is a nice matching early 1990s S-H uniform



Steve

[Klaus1989]

Steve,
In my experience from handling both S-H and BGS, S-H Polizei used generally duller grey-green for canvas instead of schwarzgrün of BGS, especially in early years (1950s-early 60s). Not as familiar with later years, so could say, if they changed. But with faded BGS equipment, can cause confusion sometimes.

Regards
Klaus

[Collectinsteve]

Hi Klaus,

Yes, the S-H Einsatz items have more green than blue. However, fading can make things more difficult to see in photos. Especially badly lit photos. The other problem is the cut of the uniform and equipment are often the same or very similar.

To illustrate what I'm saying, here's a 1963 BGS Einsatzjacke compared to an early 1970s S-H jacket:





Similar design, similar colors. The BGS jacket is near new colors and the S-H jacket is significantly faded. I have an unissued S-H hood and the colors are even closer to BGS. Both are badged so that does make it easier The BGS jacket has the arc added to it indicating it was used beyond 1970.

Steve

[Klaus1989]

Hi Klaus,

Yes, the S-H Einsatz items have more green than blue. However, fading can make things more difficult to see in photos. Especially badly lit photos. The other problem is the cut of the uniform and equipment are often the same or very similar.

I meant more the field equipment, such as breadbags, rucksacks, helmets and messkits. These have more noticeable greener colour. The uniforms are yes somewhat different, as you mentioned.

Regards
Klaus

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

Lets go back to PP Bln for a while. My research indicates that there at least four belt buckles worn by the Berlin police after WWII. The first type was probably the TR polizei buckle with the polizei emblem hammered out. We've discussed this type of buckle before so I won't go into it again.
By 1947 a new design had been created for the PP Bln. It was worn from 1947 until 1961 when a new design was approved. This second design was worn from 1961 until 1978 when yet another design appeared. They are all variations of the police star and are shown below. This is a photo from the net because the third type of this buckle for my collection is still sitting in Germany. They are shown from left to right in the years worn.
The buckles are all of the same size and general shape but each one is slightly different but I won't go into that here.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

The third buckle, worn from 1978 to ? because it did not show up well in the other photo. This is the buckle that I have purchased in Germany.