West German Polizei

[Klaus1989]

schupo,

I don't think shoulder boards were worn with this type of rank insignia. Green could very well be NCO but I would think officers (higher ranks) would use bars but in a different colour. That was done in Bavaria and a number of other states up until 1965. I have just received a number of pictures of early tunics West German uniforms sold by the World Police Museum in Milan Italy that support this theory. I'll post them later but right now here is another one of these "salt and pepper" tunics from my picture archives. I have a tunic like this from Bavaria as well but can not find pictures of it. I do have pictures of my M43 style cap that goes with the Bavarian "salt and Pepper" tunic.
I'll post the Bavarian rank insignia up to 1965 as well.

Gordon,
I was interested about the sleeve patch on this Bavarian Polizeimeister tunic and finally found some infos. Apparently Ober- and Mittelfranken and Unterfranken had their own rural police units in early years, first independently as Landjägerei and Gendarmerie respectively (1945/46), then within Landpolizei (1946-52), until completely unified and switch to regular Landpolizei patch worn in rest of Bavaria. So your tunic must be from 1952 or earlier. Nice rare piece!

Regards
Klaus

[Collectinsteve]

Stunning piece, Gordon! Has anybody found trousers in this style of cloth? I've seen quite a few tunics in the green/yellow colors (this is the first "salt and pepper" one I've seen!), but I don't now that I've seen any trousers. Were they worn with wool trousers?

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

Steve,

I do not own this tunic unfortunately. At least I don't think I do?
I do not believe that these tunics were worn with pants made of this type of material. Pictures of these tunics in wear are as rare as it gets. Here is a picture of police uniforms through the ages from Bavaria, showing one of these tunics with a matching hat, but I can not guarantee that the pants that are shown with the tunics are those that were worn with it but there is a good chance they were. I can guarantee the hats matched the tunics because I own one. I was offered two and could take my pick but the vendor would not sell me both hats. The pants shown with these tunics appears to be black or very dark blue. Now if I only had all of these pretty uniforms!

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

where is the tunic from? I thought it was yours, because it was in your post! I have not seen such trousers for summer tunic. Other states like West-Berlin show this type of tunic with wool trousers.

Bavarian police had brown trousers (almost olive in colour). I can not find any info, if black trousers were worn at some time. Have seen few other of these historical police events in Germany, usually just put on tunics over regular clothes for photo, so trousers are often not originals.

Regards
Klaus

[Gordon Craig]

Klaus,

I should have mentioned that the tunic was not in my collection. I remember now that I looked at it in an auction and decided not to buy it because I wasn't sure of the originality of the badges. Since I have two of this type of tunic already it was no problem to pass it up. I always save the picture though.
I agree about the trousers which is why I said what I did in my previous post. Not having seen a period picture with the tunics and trousers in wear I do not have any reference for what was actually worn.

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

yes, sleeve badge is 100% original. As mentioned, very rare version to find because only worn short time in early years before Franken had its Landpolizei completely consolidate with rest of Bavaria. I saw period photo on German forum of one of these in wear, but had not saved the photo.

Regards
Klaus

[Gordon Craig]

Klaus,

Sorry again. I wasn't doubting the originality of the badge itself when I decided not to buy it and I didn't explain that well enough. What concerned me was the way that the badges, especially those for the rank, were sewn on to the uniform. I would certainly buy it now that I have more knowledge about these uniforms and the rank badges used in this time frame.

Regards,

Gordon

[chiffonnier]

Another white top visor came in this week.
The wearer still attached to it,wich is rarely encountered.
Note the GdP badge on it ( Gerwerkschaft der Polizei).
All the best,
Kees

[Klaus1989]

Have couple unidentified equipments, that I suspect are Bereitschaftspolizei, but not sure which. Maybe someone give better ID or confirm this?

The 2-piece short messkit on right is odd green colour, with BGS messkit (ESB 62) on left for colour comparison. It is only marked PSL on front with no dates, no stamps on handle attachments. I suspect possibly Bavaria (or BaWü?), because colour match to some helmets, that I have seen. Also is RG 34 in police green with owners name Ullmann, PM (=Polizeimeister?). Not sure, which Land.



Regards
Klaus

[Collectinsteve]

Another white top visor came in this week.
The wearer still attached to it,wich is rarely encountered.
Note the GdP badge on it ( Gerwerkschaft der Polizei).
All the best,
Kees

That's cute

Steve

[Marksharky]

RG 34 P. Pr. Bln

Here is another RG34 tin that members may find interesting. I picked this up from another collector who thought it was BGS. I bought it sight-unseen, and was pleasantly surprised when it arrived and discovered it was marked P. Pr. Bln, and was painted in "Polizei Green".

The tin is marked P. Pr. Bln. inside the top lid in "electro-pencil". There are a few other markings in "electo-pencil" inside both top and bottom lids that I can not make out......... possibly owner initials or a number.


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[Klaus1989]

Interesting that PPBln RG 34 would be green. My cleaning kit has no stamps and is made of brass. Yours appear to be steel, which would normally associate with wartime. But is possible, that early postwar cleaning kits were also steel?

Regards
Klaus

[Marksharky]

I have several early, post-war cleaning kit tins that are steel. I believe one of them has an early 1960's date and is steel. I'll check them this evening and post a follow-up.

It appears that the "Polizei-Green" paint was possibly applied in the field at a much earlier date, although I can not say that for sure.
Does anyone know if these cleaning tins were originally issued in any colors other than the BGS Green or BW OD Green? I would guess that the kits were obtained obtained in the darker green color and then repainted for police use.

[Klaus1989]

Here is interior of mine. In contrast to WW2 and many postwar, it have only one holder for brush. The second brush is not present, so not sure, where it would fit. The latches are darker green from rest of can.



As for other variations, Hamburg had blue-green with castle stamp on it. Most would be issued with colour to match other equipments. Some were also probably repainted. I would have thought, Berlin would have bluegrey or brown/olive.

Regards
Klaus

[Marksharky]

It is interesting that your tin only has one brush holder. I looked at my other cleaning tins last night and compared them to the Polizei tin that I have. Both of the BW Green tins are from the early 60's: 1962 and 1963.
The spring metal clip that holds the lids closed on both of the BW tins are made of a blued steel and are not painted, There is no paint inside the tins. On the Polizei tin, the spring clips are painted and there is paint inside the lids. This is what makes me think that the Polizei tin was painted in the field, for police issue.

It would be great to see some other photos of any more of the non-BW tins in member's collections! These are the things that i find so interesting about collecting This is a small mystery, but an interesting one!

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