BTW, if this jacket did originate from me (quite possible) then it came with a bunch of Zoll items I bought off of eBay. Which lends credibility to it being Zoll in addition to everything else said here.
Steve
Steve
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Steve,
I believe that it is a Zoll tunic. I'll have to change my notes on my inventory.
Regards,
Gordon.Comment
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The top pleated pockets are set at a slight angle. My tunic also has a button hole on the left lapel so it can be closed at the neck. This seems to be an affectation of style however as the collar is clearly designed to be open with a 1" cut in the material behind the top open collar button so that the lapels will lay flat.Originally posted by Gordon Craig View PostComment
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i bought tunic as Zoll, then several people here told me it was Bayern. Rank not match any known Zoll rank, although there could be others.
Steve,
you sold it to me with what you thought was Zoll summer tunic, but was later correctly identified as Bavarian. Similar salt and pepper material was used to line pockets on this tunic. If you bought as part of same lot, might not have contained as many Zoll items, as you thought!
Regards
KlausComment
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Was this the one you bought off of me on eBay back in 2008? Heh... yeah, that did come with a bunch of Zoll stuff. Including a nearly identical jacket which definitely had Zoll rank on it.Originally posted by Klaus1989 View Post
Funny to learn something new about something out of my hands for almost 10 years!
SteveComment
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Gentlemen,
Sorry that I have not post to this thread sooner. Busy getting ready to leave for Florida in a couple of days and time for stuff like this is short right now.
To the tunic. No time do do further studies on Zoll ranks, but as Klaus says, the rank on this tunic looks like that of a Bavarian Anwarter. A couple of things that stand out to me on this tunic are; 1-the lack of a sleeve badge - ie for Bavarian Landespolizei; 2-the upper and lower pockets are of the "slash" type. I have never seen a Bavarian tunic with pockets like this. In every picture of Bavarian police that I have seen the pockets are always straight across. Not on a slant. I am attempting to contact a German police collector who is very knowledgeable in Bavarian uniforms so that I can send him a picture of this tunic for his comments.
One more thing. Klaus has said that the tunic he bought from Steve had pocket lining of the salt and pepper type police uniform. The tunic that I have does not have this type of lining. It is of a much lighter material thatn that used in the salt and pepper tunics. I believe that the material used in these salt and peeper type uniform would be much too stiff to use in tunic pockets. This "salt and pepper" type material was used by Bavaria post war but also by other state police forces. I've posted some pictures of my post war tunics made from this type of material and compared it to pocket material of the tunic we are discussing.
Sorry that the pictures are so poor. Lack to time here. The first green/yellow salt and pepper tunic is for the Landespolizie Hessen. The second with the salt and pepper hat from Bavaria I can not attribute to a specific state.
Regards,
GordonLast edited by Gordon Craig; 04-04-2017, 09:12 AM.Comment
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A comparison to the pocket material in the green tunic with the two post war salt and pepper tunic material.Comment
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Gentlemen,
I have had a very interesting reply from my police collector contact in Bavaria. Here is what he had to say plus the pictures that he sent.
"Well, let us see facts:
1. The jacket in your picture 2 shows the typical Bavarian police green (the other pictures are too brightly to be able to judge around this). Sihe my picture 0003, 0295
2. It has collar batches in the kind like they were carried from 1965 to 1975. The collar batches have a silver-coloured edge. There were these empty collar mirrors, however, only in the middle service and there only with green edge (Officer candidate).Siehe picture: Rangabz. Bay 1 and 2
3. Every jacket from 1952 to 1975 has an oval Aufnäher on the left upper arm. The inscription from 1952 to 1965 is "Bavarian Landpolizei", from 1965 to 1975 "Bavarian Landespolizei".
4.In line of my searches there were at the land police and the landespolice no jackets with being fold outside in the Brustaschen (Chestpocket?). All jackets had worked the stretchpart inwards, so that only a narrow slit was to be seen. See picture 0295
5. It also can be none of the newcolored Wehrmacht jackets carried before 1952, because they had their lower pockets putten on the outside.
6. However, such jackets were carried for many years on the riot police, her tone was grey-green. See picture: Uniform im Wandel
Unfortunately, I am not able to assign this jacket to any Bay. Uniform variation - and with it also to no special epoch. "
From this email I have to say that I no longer have a clue as to who wore this tunic. More research required I guess.
Regards,
GordonComment
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#2,Comment
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#3,Comment
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Hi all!!!!!
Just a few pics of some additions to my BGS display..
Namely a Jacket un-demilled but with Grenzadler eagle missing (I have one somewhere to replace it!!) Woollen Winter Pants (I know the Parka should be worn with these .. .but im yet to add one to the collection!!)
boots, pair of MP5 mag pouches.. lieutenant rank boards...the officers brown belt. (I only have one black one..used on my other display torso)
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Looks good! And I don't think it's bad to have the wool trousers with the jacket. I am sure that troopers wore this combo when the weather wasn't cold enough to warrant a parka, but cool enough that insulated trousers would be more comfortable. Especially if a truck driver out on maneuvers!
I'm not so sure about the brown belt, though. If memory serves me brown leather was only an early BGS thing. Klaus knows the details better than I so hopefully he comes around to give some info.
Nachrichten, thanks for the link! Looks interesting! In fact, a quick look found an example of the field jacket and wool trousers:
http://www.bundesgrenzschutz-online....te/v_-geffken/
Scroll down to the picture titled "Sammeln im Gelände Lütjenholm" on the right. That looks like wool trousers to me. Note snow in the background and wool toques.
SteveComment
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Brown belts were worn by ranks Meister and above.
NComment
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Yup, but didn't that stop at some point before the 1976 changes? I thought it had.Originally posted by Nachrichten View Post
Oh, and another note. Technically one of those magazine pouches isn't correct for BGS. The one stamped THW is for Technische Hilfswerk, the one stamped BUND is generic enough that it can be used with BGS or THW or probably Polizei. But since they are the same in the more important aspects, I say don't worry about it
SteveComment
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