BGS BundesGrenzSchutz

[Gordon Craig]

TJ,

I went through my polizei tunics yesterday and I have a tunic identical to the one in your picture. Yours does not seem to have a Border Guard (Grenzpolizei) arm badge nor does mine. Therefore, he is either a regular Bavarian Police officer or this picture was taken before the sleeve shield came into use. I don't remember the date the Bavarian Grenzpolizei started wearing the sleeve shields and don't have time right now to look through my files for that info. I do have a Bavarian Grenzpolizie anorak so I can confirm what the sleeve shields look like and that sleeve they were worn on. I wanted to post pictures of my tunic but I have a new laptop and it is not co-operating with me and my camera at the moment!

Regards,

Gordon

[Guardian 5]

TJ,

I went through my polizei tunics yesterday and I have a tunic identical to the one in your picture. Yours does not seem to have a Border Guard (Grenzpolizei) arm badge nor does mine. Therefore, he is either a regular Bavarian Police officer or this picture was taken before the sleeve shield came into use. I don't remember the date the Bavarian Grenzpolizei started wearing the sleeve shields and don't have time right now to look through my files for that info. I do have a Bavarian Grenzpolizie anorak so I can confirm what the sleeve shields look like and that sleeve they were worn on. I wanted to post pictures of my tunic but I have a new laptop and it is not co-operating with me and my camera at the moment!

Regards,

Gordon

Thanks very much Gordon. I hope you get up and running with the new kit soon.

All the best,
TJ

[Klaus1989]

the photo is Zoll! The cap with Bundeskokarde confirm it. Bayerische Grenzpolizei wear standard Bavarian star badge and brown trousers. I would date photo from early-mid 60s (or possibly late 50s).

Regards
Klaus

[Collectinsteve]

the photo is Zoll! The cap with Bundeskokarde confirm it. Bayerische Grenzpolizei wear standard Bavarian star badge and brown trousers. I would date photo from early-mid 60s (or possibly late 50s).

Regards
Klaus

Well, that was my firs thought as well. But I don't see a Zoll rank that is blank with light colored cord around the edges except for a very high rank. Then again, the source I checked might be incorrect. Buried in a box I have a better source. Perhaps I can find the time to dig it out.

As for the trousers... the guy in this picture does have different colored trousers than the jacket. In this picture it does look kinda brown/beige. I thought Zoll trousers were the same color as the jacket?

Steve

[Klaus1989]

Zoll rank look like Finanzanwärter - i think edge is gold, but lighting make it look paler than it is. Same with trousers - they are definitely grey, but film/lighting give slight brownish appearance. Zoll trousers and breeches were grey and not green. The difference of colour is noticeable even in b/w photos. Bayerische Grenzpolizei trousers are much different shade than this and they not wear Kokarde.

Regards
Klaus

[Collectinsteve]

Zoll rank look like Finanzanwärter - i think edge is gold, but lighting make it look paler than it is. Same with trousers - they are definitely grey, but film/lighting give slight brownish appearance. Zoll trousers and breeches were grey and not green. The difference of colour is noticeable even in b/w photos. Bayerische Grenzpolizei trousers are much different shade than this and they not wear Kokarde.

Regards
Klaus

I had thought that Finanzanwärter was a more senior rank, but looking at the chart now... is it is a transition from "nco" to "officer", similar to Polizeikommisar Anwärter? If so, then everything makes sense completely. Zoll, not Bayern.

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

Gentllemen,

So we are back to guessing what colour the pipping is on the collar tabs. Perhaps we should ask TJ what he thinks it is? Silver, gold, light green? All of us will be seeing a different colour on our screens perhaps going back to the owner of the picture for his idea of what the colurs in the picture are would be useful?

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

Nah, I think Klaus is right. Color of the cord isn't as important as the fact they are blank. As I said earlier, both Zoll and Bayerische Grenzpolizei have one and only one rank with no emblems on it. At least according to the rank charts I saw. If both are transitional NCO/Officer positions, which now believe they are, then they are both compatible with what we see in the picture. Combined with Klaus' other info it does appear that Zoll is what this guy is.

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

Steve,

You could be correct for the picture but I would like to see both rank structures posted in this thread for comparison. Since I have fixed my picture problem here are some pictures of my tunic. There no markings or labels in it to date it from. I'd like to hear other comments about this tunic and I hope that anyone who comments can support whatever they have to say. Always willing to learn!

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

#2, Note the slanted pockets.

[Collectinsteve]

According to the International Encyclopedia of Uniforms and Insignia, this is the appropriate Zoll rank for the period:

http://www.uniforminsignia.org/?opti...=53&result=686

And Bavarian law enforcement of the day, but not specifically Grenzpolizei:

http://www.uniforminsignia.org/?opti...=53&result=676

Steve

[Klaus1989]

Gordon,
I think i sell this tunic to you (and Steve owned before that!). It is unissued Polizeikommissar-Anwärter, that never had traces of patch attached. It would not have been worn that way in service however.

Grenzpolizei ranks are same as rest of Bavarian police at time.

Regards
Klaus

[Gordon Craig]

Klaus,

Yes you sold me this tunic and I agree thatit appears to be Bavarian Police. I just posted it to start some conversation. All my reference material for Bavarian Police for the 65-74 perios seems to ndicate that the pockets were straigh and not on an angle as my uniform is. I don't disagree that the chap in the picture TJ posted is Zoll. At least this thread has had me digging through my uniforms ad reminding me just how much Bavarian police stuff I have.

Regards,
Gordon

[SCHUPO]

Gordon & Klaus,

I have an identical tunic with no sleeve patch and no issue markings inside. It has the same machine sewn blank tabs with twisted aluminum piping and slash lower pockets. Mine has a neck tag from "Heyl & Pfeiffer / inh. Otto Pfeiffer / Hamburg - Lubeck" as the maker.

[Gordon Craig]

Schupo,

Thanks for your comments. You are ahead of me with a makers tag. My tunic is devoid of any tags/markings. My tunic also has slanted upper pockest as well as slanted lower ones. How about yours? Interesting that your tunic in made in Hamburg.

Regards,

Gordon