BGS BundesGrenzSchutz

[Klaus1989]

Klaus - Good to hear from you. I'm sure you're well on your way to earning "magna cum lager" honors at university.

Just to clarify, the information you provided is that the BW coconut is the one without the green enamel paint.

I picked up on the contruction differences as well (sewing vs. riveting). It's amazing the variation you'd find from the same company during a presumably small production run.

Thanks for the info - TJ

I not understand about "with enamel paint." Both canteens with green leather straps and smaller cups are BW, just one variation with composite material on flask and other without. Canvas strap and big cup with bumps on bottom is BGS Kokonuß.

Well I dont know about the "lager" part but I just won a couple early BRD tunics (not BGS though) that I will post in the coming weeks. There is a nice complete(!) Grenzschutzeinzeldienst tunic on ebay now if you are interested. I am not bidding on it.

regards
Klaus

[Asbjoern]

Early BGS Tunic !?

Some weeks ago I was able to get this green four-pocket tunic:







It is said, that it is an early pattern BGS tunic, but there is no trace of a stamp / any kind of lable in it, and the picture material is not as clear as it should be... .
Any opinion here ?

Thanks,

Jens

[Klaus1989]

Jens:
That does not look early BGS to me. I have seen one dealer selling early BGS tunic (ca. 1951-52) and it was Wehrmacht tunic converted to open collar by replacing some fabric. They also used "pine green" short jacket for field wear before adopting camo uniforms but this is clearly neither.

Not sure what it is. Perhaps 1950s Polizei (not sure which Bundesland it would be)?

regards
Klaus

[Guardian 5]

Jens - I think the BGS wore a four pocket tunic for a brief period in the late fifties before going over to camouflage field dress, but most that I have seen in period photos have the two color collar.

I like the pointed epaulette and the field dressing pouch, but the "polizei" green color and lack of a two color collar give me doubts. Lander level BEPO?

TJ

[Guardian 5]

More evidence that the BGS wore a four pocket tunic in the field, but alas a two color collar.

I apologize for the poor quality of photos.

TJ

[Guardian 5]

Jens - I just came across this old polizei photo and now I'm convinced your tunic is old polizei.

Under magnification the epaulette is seen to be clearly pointed, a badge is worn on the left breast pocket, and the collar is of one color.

You may get some more feedback on this tunic by posting it on Gordon Craig's West German Police uniform thread.

Good luck in getting a good identification, I hope I didn't confuse matters too much.

Take care - TJ

[Huntzman]

Jens

The tunic is from the old State Police uniform for Nordrhein Westfalen (worn till 1976), as is the photo TJ posted. They were the only ones who used this rank insignia.

Andrew

[Guardian 5]

Andrew - Thanks for closing the loop.

TJ

[SCHUPO]

Gents,

Regarding the cuffbands worn by BGS folks seen in two earlier photographs. Did they in fact wear der Spiess cuff stripes? I have a BGS tunic with a "Grenzschutzeinzeldienst" cuff title for a single service post like the old WWII Gendarmerie. Did the Bundesgrenzschutz wear any other cuff titles other than this one?

[Klaus1989]

That tunic is NOT Nordrhein-Westfalen Polizei until 1976. I have the 1970-76 NRW Polizei tunic and it is cut like three pocket blazer, so this must be pre-1970 NRW Polizei tunic. Shoulderboards are similar but did not know what style used before 1970 so I was hesitant to mention.

This is my NRW Polizei tunic (1974) for comparison:



regards
Klaus

[Huntzman]

Klaus

Yes, you are correct. I speak in general terms regarding the time periods because it can be quiet confusing to someone who is not familiar with the items to begin with.

In most instances the time frames have to be viewed as "fluid" because there are extended periods of overlap. Such as in the case of BGS / BPol. While they have moved to the blue uniforms, I still have several colleagues who continue to wear the green uniforms.

In the case of the NRW uniform, this style (viewed in the complete uniform color, rank, patch, etc) was worn till 1976.

I think the reason there has not been an indepth book produced on this topic is because it is a nightmare trying to piece together the chronological order of each uniform piece.

Andrew

Note: In the case of the tunic in question, the rank indicates an entry level police student: polizeihauptwachtmeister auf wideruff (This rank is now known as PHW/Anwarter). This was worn begining in 1955. The photo shown by TJ would be for the rank of polizeihauptwachtmeister. Klaus, your tunic is for a polizeikommissar. That particular rank style did not exist prior to 1970.

[Asbjoern]

Many thanks for your numerous replies! As the tunic was found in Bonn the NRW police origin is very likely - do you mean "NRW BePo" with state police ? If so it will stay in the collection as I own some other BeBo material of the 50ies/60ies (especially some helmets) . If its "only police" it will have to go ...

At the weekend I was able to aquire some more stuff from NRW - a canteen and pouch for the eye protection, both stamped "NRW Justiz" and made in the 60ies ... I´ll post pictures as soon as I got them...

Regards,

Jens

[Klaus1989]

Andrew:
I know what the tunic is and when used. I was just trying to clarify to our friend Jens here that he had what appeared to be pre1970 NRW tunic.

regards
Klaus

[SCHUPO]

Gents,

I have a "Grenz-Pol." marked pistol holster that I am trying to identify. Was there any postwar Grenz Polizei other than the Bavarian Grenz Polizei? Was it ever absorbed by the BGS?

[Klaus1989]

Gents,

I have a "Grenz-Pol." marked pistol holster that I am trying to identify. Was there any postwar Grenz Polizei other than the Bavarian Grenz Polizei? Was it ever absorbed by the BGS?

The Bayerische Grenzpolizei were indeed the only Grenzpolizei in BRD. They were formed in 1947 and disbanded in 1998. Remaining personnel were absorbed by Bayerische Landespolizei and Bayerische Landeskriminalamt, not BGS.

http://www.polizei.bayern.de/wir/ges...dex.html/23287

Der Abbau der Grenzkontrollen zu Österreich führte schließlich 1998 zur Auflösung der Bayerischen Grenzpolizei als selbständigem Verband. Die verbliebenen grenzpolizeilichen Aufgaben erfüllen seitdem die Bayerische Landespolizei und das Bayerische Landeskriminalamt.

regards
Klaus