BGS BundesGrenzSchutz

[Klaus1989]

This BGS breadbag was bought by me in Bonn several weeks ago. The loops on flap are low quality black leather and internal straps are brown, which is strange. Are these replacements? The leather on belt loops is normal. The lighting was bad but breadbag is actually faded BGS green. When I have time to photograph some BGS field equipment set-ups, hopefully it will appear better.

Breadbag with its original strap (also very faded):


Inside with strange brown straps:


Stamp is very faded and hard to read. I see "3," "10/72 ?" and "? 52 ?". Is it possible for someone to enhance this photo?


regards
Klaus

[Klaus1989]

An old blue Passkontrolldienst uniform recently appeared on Ebay. There were references of it on bundespolizei.de history page worn before 1970 when BGS uniform with GSE cufftitle was adopted but no one had seen photo. Appears to be double-breasted blue blazer, similar to BGS-See in cut but with plastic (?) buttons, no shoulderboards and PKD badge on collar.

Unfortunately no shipping outside of Germany and no Paypal...

regards
Klaus

[Gordon Craig]

Klaus,

Interesting uniform. Thanks for the great reference picture. Why not send the vendor a message and ask if he will sell to you and ship to the U.S.? You would have to be willing to send him the cash in an envelope but I don't imagine that would amount to a lot so wouldn't be too much pain if it did go astray. I've had good luck with this approach in the past and since you speak German there should be no misunderstanding about what you are asking the vendor to do.

Regards,

Gordon

[sgtmonroe]

I was hoping someone could help with dating BGS uniforms and insignia. Maybe we could start by posting the major changes in uniforms and the years the changes took effect.

VPpat's question really does not seem to have been answered in this thread.

A breakdown of the standard BGS Dienstanzüge for the first ten years [1951-1961]. This information is based on photographic evidence [as it is hard to find adoption dates for BGS uniforms]:

1951 to 1953 - Rundbundbluse mit Keilhose - this is the two-pocket tunic with Wehrmacht-type trousers. Worn with the field cap [or helmet] and belt. This uniform was officially replaced by the four-pocket [the so-called "dark collared"] tunic and trousers on 07 July 1953 [the only "official" date I have found]. Images show the two-pocket tunic and trousers being worn as late as 1955 [worn in conjuction with the four-pocket tunic]. The BGS arm patch is worn on this jacket [without the arc of course] on the left sleeve. NO Kragenspiegel are worn.

This image was posted by Klaus1989 which shows the two-pocket tunic [so the image is circa 1951-1955]:



1953 to 1957 - Dienstrock - the four-pocket tunic [with dark collar] is officially adopted on 07 July 1953. It does not start to appear in service until 1954. It is worn with the field cap or peaked cap [one source indicates the peaked cap was adopted for wear in 1954] or helmet and belt. When this tunic is adopted it is worn with the BGS arm patch on the left sleeve [without the arc or course] and WITHOUT Kragenspiegel. A matching Arbeitsanzug appears to have been adopted at the same time that is made of lighter weight fabric [later in moleskin] without the dark collar.

circa 1957 to 1973 - Photographic evidence indicates that sometime in 1957 the Kragenspiegel are adopted and begin appearing on uniforms. Photographs show BGS Jäger wearing the four-pocket tunic with the Kragenspiegel and without throughout 1957. According to one BGS history source the dark-collar is officially deleted from the four-pocket tunic in 1973.

Hope this helps answer the question. I will post images soon to "detail" the history of the service uniform as well as the different camouflage uniforms and their service history.

[Klaus1989]

sgtmonroe,
Well-researched! I must say it little more complicated though...

There are two models of Dienstrock. The first one is rough wool like Rundbundbluse made of (which is similar to WW2 wool) and has no turnback cuffs. This was version introduced in 1953. The second model is finer weave wool/polyester blend with turnback cuffs. Not sure of introduction but they first appear in photos from around 1963 and are slow to replace former model. I have two dated 1966. There are also lighter weight Sommerdienstrock with and without turnback cuffs. Not sure of introduction date. The BGS-Schriftbogen added to Bundesadler 1970 to make less military. Sommerdienstrock is not an Arbeitsanzug.

I have never heard change to plain collar in 1973. The Dienstrock worn to around 1976 (wear out time). The new green uniforms were the new Polizei uniforms with BGS insignia. I think designed 1974 but introduced 1975-76.

In addition to sumpftarn, green border patrol uniform in same cut issued start around 1961. Both are called Einsatzanzug.

regards
Klaus

[sgtmonroe]

Klaus,

Great information!!! I cut my personal research and collection off at 1961...so I don't know much about the variations in BGS uniforms after that. So it's great to have someone else fill in the later gaps.

I am confused. You mention a Sommerdienstrock and that it is not an Arbeitsanzug. Are you referring to the note I made about the lightweight version of the 1953 four-pocket tunic? If so, the reason I called the four-pocket lightweight tunic and trousers the Arbeitsanzug is because of BGS-vets usage of the designation. Here is a description of the use of the lightweight four-pocket tunic and trousers from a BGS-vet [he also calls it the Moleskinanzug which appears to be used more as a "slang" term]:

"Arbeitsanzug wurde beim Formal-, Gelände-, Schieß-, und Arbeitsdienst getragen, beim Arbeitsdienst meist mit Schiffchen."

So I just used the term as he does. If you were referring to a totally different uniform item then I apologize for my confusion.

I forgot to add in my original post that the first lightweight Arbeitsanzug, that was issued beginning in 1951, is a simple one-piece coverall with button front. I have not found when it was officially replaced, but more than likely it was in 1953 with the adoption of the new uniforms.

[sgtmonroe]

Here are some images detailing the Rundbundbluse mit Keilhose:

1951 - Original photograph is captioned: "Auf dem Marktplatz in Glückstadt 1951".



1952 - Original photograph is captioned: "Üben im Gelände".



1953 - Original photograph is captioned: "Einmarsch in Eschwege 1953".



1954 - Photograph is dated 25 November 1954 and shows Grenzjäger participating in field excercises near Regensberg.



1954 - As above image but the date is 27 November 1954 during the same large-scale field exercise near Regensberg. I believe someone had asked about the BGS flare cartridge pouch in another thread - the Grenzjäger on the left is wearing one.



1954 - Original caption reads: "Weihnachtsfeier in Eschwege 1954". The image shows the wearing of the new four-pocket tunic [without Kragenspiegel] in December 1954.



More to come...

[Klaus1989]

I am confused. You mention a Sommerdienstrock and that it is not an Arbeitsanzug. Are you referring to the note I made about the lightweight version of the 1953 four-pocket tunic? If so, the reason I called the four-pocket lightweight tunic and trousers the Arbeitsanzug is because of BGS-vets usage of the designation. Here is a description of the use of the lightweight four-pocket tunic and trousers from a BGS-vet [he also calls it the Moleskinanzug which appears to be used more as a "slang" term]:

"Arbeitsanzug wurde beim Formal-, Gelände-, Schieß-, und Arbeitsdienst getragen, beim Arbeitsdienst meist mit Schiffchen."

So I just used the term as he does. If you were referring to a totally different uniform item then I apologize for my confusion.

sgtmonroe,
Sommerrock or leichter Rock (I was wrong - no "Dienst") is worn as in your quote according to BGS Taschenbuch but Arbeitsanzug is different. Sommerrock look similar to Dienstrock but lighter fabric. It is worn at same times in warmer months. It required specific order to wear. I think he confuses terms.

The Arbeitsanzug probably mean green cotton jacket with two lower pockets and no breast pockets. There are also trousers with this. It is different from green Einsatzanzug or Sommerdienstrock. Never heard of one piece Kombi except for vehicle crews and pilots.

Man on left in photo 1 and man on left in photo 5 with G1 are wearing Arbeitsanzug:
http://www.beim-alten-bgs.de/Beim_al...enleben_1.html

regards
Klaus

[sgtmonroe]

Klaus,

I think I now understand where I got confused. The two-pocket [lower] jacket with trousers is designated the Arbeitsanzug.

So this is what you are saying is the Sommeranzug:





This image is of K. Werner wearing the above uniform...which is referred to as an Arbeitsanzug but is actually the Sommeranzug...am I correct?



I have no proof or images of the coverall - it was just relayed to me by a veteran. He may well have had a vehicle crew coverall he used as an Arbeitsanzug.

[Klaus1989]

I am not sure what that uniform is. Maybe earlier or later Arbeitsanzug than early 1960s model? I have no idea when that photo taken. The Sommerrock looks like Dienstrock but lighter weight fabric (cotton or linen?). It has dark green collar and same insignia. A collector I know has several. Unfortunately I do not.

regards
Klaus

[sgtmonroe]

The picture of the tunic and trousers I posted are what my veteran friend calls an Arbeitsanzug. He said it was made of lightweight cloth [not wool] and first issued when the four-pocket tunic and trousers were issued in 1954. He said at some point the lightweight uniform began being made from the same "moleskin" cotton fabric as the Bundeswehr work uniforms.

[sgtmonroe]

I have been looking through images and have found the use of the lightweight four-pocket tunic and trousers [that I posted the images of in #309] during 1957, 1958, and 1959. I have not gone through my 1954-1956 or post-1960 images yet but will do so in the next few days.

I have a large collection of BGS images from 1951 through the 1970s, but most were obtained from veterans with the promise that I would not post them "all over the internet". I respect their wishes and will post ones that I can in the coming weeks to create a clearer timeline of the "first ten years" [1951-1961] of BGS uniforms and equipments.

[Klaus1989]

Your uniform must be early model of Arbeitsanzug. It is certain not Sommerrock. Photos should be interesting. How you meet the BGS veterans? Contacts certainly help!

regards
Klaus

[Guardian 5]

sgtmunroe and Klaus1989 - A fascinating and informative exchange. My BGS uniform knowledge took a quantum leap between post #308 and post #312.

Now I know enough not to speak about BGS "Ike" jackets anymore; it's a "Rundbundbluse". I'm also wondering how many of the Sommerzug/Arbeitanzug "joined the Afrika Korps". It wouldn't take much for a devious faker to make make the transformation. As a matter of fact, I'm sure I've seen some of those conversions on internet auction sites.

I can't wait to see other photos from sgtmonroe's secret stash.

Thanks for sharing - TJ

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

This is a very interesting thread with loads of new information to most of us. Looking forward to the next set of pictures.

Regards,

Gordon