The slits on the sides at the bottom. Also shown are the shirt sleeve cuffs.
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The label at the back of the neck of the shirt.Comment
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The other side of the label.Comment
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Gordon,
I have seen these worn in 1960s-70s photos with both green and sumpftarn field uniforms, instead of the blue shirt. I do not know when they introduced or removed from service though. If you look at 70s photos on Beim alten BGS, you will see them worn.
Regards
KlausComment
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Steve 82,
Funny... I have that very same picture in my own collection. A collector sent me a bunch of pics of his stuff eons ago. Was that you? The likely date is 1959 as that was the most common date for those trousers.
Huntzman,
Excellent reference for badging! The number of small variations in size of the Bundesgrenzschutz arc and shield is extremely frustrating when trying to match orphaned badging to badgeless items. Which is why I invested in a sizable pile of badges to choose from
I notice you do not have the Sumpftarn camouflage backed badge in your display. Is this something you are interested in getting a hold of? I probably have a spare. Here's the one I am talking about.
Gordon,
Nice pull over! I've not seen one like that myself, but I do know that Polizei and Zoll had sweaters and sweater vests to wear under their service tunics during cold period. These poor guys spent a lot of time getting battered by the elements while standing around.
Cheers,
Steve
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Hi Steve,
I took those pics (not digital) maybe late 1990`s - including a pic comparing the different sumpftarn patterns I had collected in Beltring up to then, the leather webbing, the zelt etc and, my plastic flip-flops which somehow entered the pic !.
Thats good to know on the trousers - thanks. I also recall seeing a summerweight sumpftarn shirt and cap in Beltring (only took the cap unfortunately). Also have a waterproof cap in similar pattern.
Out of curiosity , any ideas where I can acquire a couple of the smaller BGS `arcs` for the pencil holder flap (on the jacket and parka) ?
Thanks and regards
Steve 82Comment
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Steve,
Ha! It is you! Yeah, I have both of those pictures. Looks like you sent it to me in 2001 Small world coincidences continue
There is no such thing as a summer issue Sumpftarn shirt. There's only the pull over smock, fairly heavy duty field jacket, and winter parka. There are a ton of "fake" items out there from the 1980s through today, including stuff in British Tropical DPM cut. In fact, I still have one made by a company called "Hanger II". It's in US OG-107 cut, complete with US style buttons. The cloth is quite light weight and the pattern/colors pretty close to correct.
I do have some spare arcs available. Best thing to do is PM me a picture of whatever you need to put them on. Lay a ruler along the bottom edge so I can make sure to match it as close as possible. As I said, there are a lot of different sizes out there, though the Sumpftarn jackets that did have arcs (many did not) tended to use the same type.
SteveComment
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Some times ago the question turned up wheather on the dark coloured green tunic the arch was worn... I aquired three unissued, 1973 manufactured tunic of the old type...with the whole insignia removed carefully, leaving the thread in the fabric...that the arch ones was sewn on can be clearly seen!!:
I managed to aquire some insignia, when it arrives I´ll post some pictures if I got the right stuff to restore the tunics...
JensComment
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Nice tunic Jens!
I don't know when the arc started being used, but from what I've seen by late 1960s it was standard. There is some inconsistency with the camouflage parka and tunic.
SteveComment
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Follow up...
Jens, yours looks to be unissued. Many years ago I purchased one just like this with paper tag on sleeve, all badging removed, and no signs of shoulder rank having been sewn in.
SteveComment
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...jep, for shure unissued ... and all of the same lot and in the same size! Beside the insignia I may have dug up the matching trouser...also still in the logistic process. I hope it turns out to be a "full set" soon...
JensComment
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O.k. , at least the main part of the insignia came in. Out of two smaller lots a full set of insignai for one jacket can be combined... the size fits perfectly.
Any opinion on the other eagles ? May the bigger one belong to a camo-jacket or a parka ?? The arch is to big for the camo-jacket...
Some more insignia and shoulderboards ar still in progress...
JensComment
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Hi Jens,
The Sumpftarn parka used the same badging as the Sumpftarn jacket.
Don't forget that the post-1978 uniforms used the same type of badging as the late 1960s, early 1970s, uniforms. A very large "BUNDESGRENZSCHUTZ" could have come from a post-1978 Diensthemd (service shirt), Dienstjacke (service jacket), or Mantel (greatcoat). I've seen service shirts which use both the small and the large acrs.
There are many small variations in sizes which makes exact matching very difficult unless you have a large pile of mixed badging to pick from.
SteveComment
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I don`t know why but the pictures disappeared ... here we go: I think the "set" on the first two pics matches very good to the jacket...:Originally posted by Asbjoern View Post
Any opinion wheather this set fits to a 1967 camo-parker or a 1973 Sumpftarnjacket..??
JensComment
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The patch left bottom is ok for sumpftarn jackets, but needs felt material on back. I can not see if arch is small or large type (small type for sumpftarn jacket). I think right patch for shirts, but not sure.
The felt back cloth Bundesadler was also worn on tunics, at least in 1960s. The stitched felt patches were greatcoat patches I think, although you might sometimes find them on tunics.
regard
KlausComment
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