Thoughts on this ebay item

[mousekilla]

Many members will have seen Major john Howards ox and Bucks lid at the famous bridge museum in normandy clearly painted black or deep deep green with flashes to the sides and a bullet hole through the top !! This has to be for me, the most breath taking helmet Ive ever had the pleasure to see.

That is why I am 100% with old smelly regardining this lid ,
from the photos there has clearly been a second coat of paint applied over the pea green factory finish ,
but it is nowhere near the same as the nasty olive green landrover paint so
commonly found on post war re issues .

These re issues in my experience are always web chin strap 43 /44 dated lids
with a horrible glossy paint finish and have names scribbled all over them.( although they all seem to have been at Arnhem!!!!)

We must remember that soldiers spent years training for the big day prior to June, 6 ,44 and intrestingly the Royal artilery are one of those units like the guards known for their spit / polish and paint Bull( hope this does not offend any guardsmen and gunners amongst us) and as OLD SMELLY pointed out if a unit were to apply decals I am sure the "powers that be" would have got all the lids upto scratch!
when you put it into perspective its only right that an extremely rare example like this is fetching the kind of money it deserves . you can see 30/ 40 or even 50 original german para helmets on the circuit but how many of these have you seen!!!!!!!
I' m glad I got mine for 45 quid years ago

[Old Smelly]

I' m glad I got mine for 45 quid years ago

Many years ago(in the olden days!) I was offered a 1943 leather straps type for £25 but turned it down in favour of a 1944 web strap model. I now have recuring nightmares.
Lee

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

Not Major Howard's, but someone that probably knew him. This is in a museum in Belgium I visited about 3 years ago.

Drooooool......

[Gary Jucha]

Now

Now thats a beauty !!!

Interesting net ..... wide squares with quite thick cord ..

Gary J.

Not Major Howard's, but someone that probably knew him. This is in a museum in Belgium I visited about 3 years ago.

Drooooool......

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

And one that I can drool over!

Jack.

[gertje]

Probably worn by Major John Frost, 2nd battalion, at bridge during the battle of Arnhem.

Jack.

Now that would be nice!
In the picture I know of him he seems to be wearing the early P-type (Bruneval) helmet.

In which Belgian museum is this gem? Well worth a visit, to me!

Marcel

[jelle]

And one that I can drool over!

Jack.

Looks Great Jack,hope you will add more pictures,congratulations

[Mons 1914]

Many members will have seen Major john Howards ox and Bucks lid at the famous bridge museum in normandy clearly painted black or deep deep green with flashes to the sides and a bullet hole through the top !! This has to be for me, the most breath taking helmet Ive ever had the pleasure to see.

Taken July last year.

Wasn't that an interesting helmet... yes possibly the leather has been treated but could be the hair oils/cream that was used back then but overall the price seams to sum it up a very rare helmet.

Scott

[mousekilla]

jack is correct about that dodgy labled denison but although the fotos of the first one arent that clear it may be one of the early post war belgian ones that came with a button front (the ones you see on denims )and has one less colour in the cammo. I have seen them still with what are wartime british made brass newey snaps .
we have all seen the common belgie post war denison (and trousers ) but there were some interim garments made in the 3-5 years after the war using materials supplied by the british-
I think the french copied the very rare and late war pattern that had a brass button s and loops iinstead of a zip (supposedly was intended for sea borne troops "commando!" as the salt water would deteriate the zip! or it could be just down to a shortage of zips! I hva e seen this pattern with a regular british makers lable and another one that had a lable up by the collar which was in french(this one had never had any other lable in it!)
I think the rarest denison is the one that is just plain khaki with no cammo
-could have bought one 20 years ago but it was £400!!!!
to confuse matters even more ,in 1986 I bought in a surplus shop for £29
a brand new spot on ww2 denison with a lable that said " ww2 paratroopers smock"!!!!!!!!!!
this was not like the horrible first repro denisons made by s. a. s .s wonder who made them? anyhow I flogged it years ago-

[jelle]

I think you are a bit confused mouskilla,your reply is to the beginning of this thread

[mousekilla]

yes I am not too clever at the computer I admit- I probably click on the wrong thing!

[mousekilla]

excellent picture .-

ref the colour ect of sweatband -I thought the sweatband leather was consistant with the general useage of the helmet and that the stamping looked right l (although it wasnt the best picture in the world)

so many of the helmets that turn up are from stock that has never been issued like a load of those ones that have come out of australia over the last 10 years or so !
where as helmets that have realy seen action (did you see that 1943 dated leather strap yellow sorbo one on ebay from Israel- very dark ) can end up realy dark brown- -not like the shoe polish colour of the double decal debacle on ebay at the moment!!
some of the stampings look very feint where as others look as if they have cut into the leather!
probably justifiable variations in manufacture and materials

the other dimension is that they weren't all made from the same leather although at first glance you would think the were. closer inspection will show otherwise - I was told by someone who was in the leather trade during the war that different types of leather were used including deer and even dog .woof woof !!!!!
p.s. hope i post this in the right place this time
p.p .s I wonder if anyone has the non cammo version of the denison?
-

[yellow]

I would never trust any museum exhibits as a reference source unless I had handled them.

Having handled one or two medals out of museum displays one often finds that very often what is on display is hash up of made up re-named gongs that have been donated by relatives who thought there was a need to make up what they had lost or sold.

So you see the source may be good but it doesnt mean to say the family or veterans didnt aquire said item years after disposing of the original.

[JEROEN1944]

We better open up a new topic about Brit para helmets

[Gary Jucha]

Agreed

Agreed !!!
.. Or even have a pinned thread ???

British para helmets seem to be a favourite point of discussion here

Gary J.

We better open up a new topic about Brit para helmets