ZDF Miniseries: Unsere Mütter, Unsere Väter

[Josh Cowell]

Hi,

Well, yes -
German nationals do "sell themselves down" when it comes to TV shows and movies produced in Germany.
If they would stand proud, they would be described as "neo-nazis" in the press of the rest of the world; so it is easier for German movie makers to leave a "get-out" at the ending.
I just wish that "Unser Mutters, Unser Vaters" was available in DVD in the UK!
That is what this thread is all about - and the Nazis who controlled Germany were mostly destroyed; thank God.
The world would have been a terrible place with Nazi domination!

Best wishes,

John.

Don't forget that the world is equally better off without any one of the Empires of the 18th and 19th centuries. Any form of forced colonization, subjugation and exploitation is wrong. None are enlightened.

[feldpost 58]

Hi Josh!

You are absolutely right, no form of subjugation or explotation is morally OK!
There are a lot of grey areas in modern politiical thought, but I think that everyone, no matter what the colour of their skin, religon or political beliefs; should have a right to live and enjoy their lives without being harrassed.
My wife recentlly broke her arm in a fall.
We have had, just this week ; 3 gay people, one person who is going through sex change operations; a lady from India. and a girl from Tiawan.
Several "straight" people have also visited , it's like the UN when our friends and we go out in a group

Best wishes,

John.

[Josh Cowell]

I'm watching the second episode when they're at Kursk. To be honest, I find this series up to now to be quite divorced from the reality as has been related by veterans of many wars. When the younger brother is asked by a young conscript how he's managed to survive this long, his answer is that surviving this long into the war is due to the urge that your comrade gets hit instead of you. This goes totally against all the feelings of not letting your buddies down and the sense of self sacrfice for your buddies that I've read about. And earlier on in episode one, when the younger brother says that the Germans were responsible for the way the partisans waged their cruel insurgency was totally not the rationale I've read about from veterans of wars from various countries such as Britain & USA. There is too much self flagelation in this series for me to take it seriously.
I'm seriously giving up hope. Now the escaped Eastern European girl is telling the Jewish friend that she was constantly raped by a German soldier and that she had a girl. I was under the impression that such conduct would end in a court martial and firing squad along with pilfering from civillians. What on earth are the German media trying to concoct. I am absolutely dismayed by what the German public are being force fed lies about the truth. I am not saying there were no war crimes on any side, but this is ridiculous.

[Hofstetter]

I'm watching the second episode when they're at Kursk. To be honest, I find this series up to now to be quite divorced from the reality as has been related by veterans of many wars. When the younger brother is asked by a young conscript how he's managed to survive this long, his answer is that surviving this long into the war is due to the urge that your comrade gets hit instead of you. This goes totally against all the feelings of not letting your buddies down and the sense of self sacrfice for your buddies that I've read about. And earlier on in episode one, when the younger brother says that the Germans were responsible for the way the partisans waged their cruel insurgency was totally not the rationale I've read about from veterans of wars from various countries such as Britain & USA. There is too much self flagelation in this series for me to take it seriously.
I'm seriously giving up hope. Now the escaped Eastern European girl is telling the Jewish friend that she was constantly raped by a German soldier and that she had a girl. I was under the impression that such conduct would end in a court martial and firing squad along with pilfering from civillians. What on earth are the German media trying to concoct. I am absolutely dismayed by what the German public are being force fed lies about the truth. I am not saying there were no war crimes on any side, but this is ridiculous.

It's quite simple really, because of the Nazi's "final solution", there will never be anything good said about anything they did, and they (or anything connected with them) will never be portrayed in any kind of positive light, at all.

[pasoleati]

Josh, you are very correct. I have never, never heard a Finnish veteran expressing that he wished his comrade to get hit instead. And I doubt that veterans of other nations would either. That line of thinking would collapse the small unit comradeship (a "mini society") that is absolutely necessary for the unit to continue fighting even under the worst circumstances.

As for partisans, e.g. on the Finnish front partisans (many of whom were recruited from criminal prison inmates [in Soviet prisons common criminals had higher status than political prisoners] clearly targeted civilians without any provocation.

[Josh Cowell]

It's quite simple really, because of the Nazi's "final solution", there will never be anything good said about anything they did, and they (or anything connected with them) will never be portrayed in any kind of positive light, at all.

Very well put. Your reasoning is spot on.

[Josh Cowell]

Josh, you are very correct. I have never, never heard a Finnish veteran expressing that he wished his comrade to get hit instead. And I doubt that veterans of other nations would either. That line of thinking would collapse the small unit comradeship (a "mini society") that is absolutely necessary for the unit to continue fighting even under the worst circumstances.

As for partisans, e.g. on the Finnish front partisans (many of whom were recruited from criminal prison inmates [in Soviet prisons common criminals had higher status than political prisoners] clearly targeted civilians without any provocation.

Thanks for backing me up with your reasoning regarding small unit comradeship being essential. I am glad you brought that up.

Another thing I found dismaying was in the last episode, when the partisan leader exclaims that German soldiers steal, confiscate and take whatever food, goods they want, while they the partisans pay for their food etc. The fact that the film producers felt the necessity to include this is dismaying. Not only for disseminating lies that will now stick with the viewers' perception from all over the world regarding German soldiers and partisan conduct, but also because of the motivation they had to include this in the first place. Why add such a scene, when it's not even necessary.

I must say that I felt sad at the end of the movie, because with all it's misrepresentations and far fetched storyline, I realise that millions of German citizens did in fact have to suffer such traumatic hardships.

[Jimbo#1]

BBC 2 debate

Hello All,

I have finished watching the entire said series, and must say I found it firstly as it should be taken, a very good DRAMA.

I feel it wrong to criticise what is in fact after all a drama. Who are we to comment on, "....this is an inaccurate portrayal"/"....this represents the A.K. in a bad light..." [/I]etc etc - were any of us there during that time?

The BBC debate sums up the modern day perception of the war and the fact that the so called "guilt" will never fade; not for as long as people remain that want to constantly remind Germany of "what they did".

I do not feel in any way that Benjamin Benidict portrayed the Germans as the "good guys" and that spins and twists on history have been made; for one minute put yourselves in the shoes of "a" soldier, regardless of side - If you were a regular soldier in the Heer, wouldn't you think you were the good guy? As would a Russian looking at the German lines - "I am a good guy". the fact of the matter is, in War all sides feel they are doing what is right as they put their faith and trust in their leadership - whether that is right or wrong.

The series should be taken for what it is - a drama with historical relevance. It would be very hypocritical and single minded of the 21st century person to insist that this series is damming, incorrect, inaccurate, and portrays entities as something that they were not, especially when we consider the fact that what we think we understand as the "history" of the second War is actually the outcome of the fact that the Victors take the spoils, and with that history too. History of this period will never be fully understood.

Nobody will ever be able to combat the critics that damn the Germans in this mini series, the Allies made them the victors through the perspective that history was written from.

[feldpost 58]

Hi all,

Well said Jimbo, this is a drama - not a documentary!
Out now on UK DVD since 12th of May, which is what I have waited for since the show was aired on German TV.
I like this show , and my copy is already in the post.
If people enjoy this TV show buy it!
If not - don't!
It is as simple as that

Best wishes,

John.

[feldpost 58]

Hi,

Got my copy, very pleased with it; better than I remembered!

Best wishes,

John.

[-Ray-]

Just watched this on NETFLIX. Never new of this program. Quite stretched out in reality when they are always meeting up with each other here and there in the woods at the front, hospital, etc.

Really don't watch war flicks much any more due to the digital special effects, not even movies anymore, may as well play a video game IMO and respect the older movies any day.

Over all enjoyed and much better than the normal BS though by far.


-Ray-

[Lee Luke]

Just watched it. Good story, some of the historical/technical stuff was off but definitely one of the better WW2 movies.

I also liked how it wasn't full of apologists guilt. It told how normal people were pulled into the war and how they change. It is not perfect but I am very happy that I saw it.

[Shawn Hall]

I enjoyed it for what it was intended. Great story! I will purchase it on Blu-ray when I can.

[Karl S.]

I also discovered it recently on Netflix. I skipped through and watched the combat scenes first, which did remind me of the Band of Brothers combat scenes. I'll go back and watch it all the way through later. I thought the uniforms and equipment were done well.

[Willi Z.]

I finally bought the DVD on Amazon and I look forward in watching the series!