The Floch interview regarding the Pink/Birch smocks

[NickG]

What if the Minsk stamps are bogus after all
and added because these smocks came from a Polish studio?
Basically done to cover their tracks...illegal under the table deal...smuggled out of Lodz during communist times. Others did not get the stamp treatment...different buyers....Adding stamps does not add value but shows a chain of custody...real or made up...Again these were found behind the iron curtain...

[RobertE]

Nutmeg, thanks for trying to stay the course and do what any number of brick smock thread participants claimed they would do for almost ten years: actually arrange and conduct an interview with Floch.

The Polish sourcing and other details are points to ponder. Dennis, I will look forward to hearing what you almost may have discovered in your Floch conversation.

Thanks for taking the time to do this during the show.

s/f Robert

[kammo man]

Now a female resistance fighter in a very light colored (pinkish?) smock...(with white laces)
Another actor has a similar smock with white laces....
I like this polish movie studio connection as revealed by Floch. All these pro communist studios worked together (G'ment run)
and gear shared - transferred over for projects (with Minsk Belarus) etc...

Please educate yourself on patterns.
Its a plain tree overprint.

[kammo man]

Next year I am interviewing Kai Winkler.

Yes ...........
This actually will make sense.

[kammo man]

Floch Interview

A friend of mine interviewed Mr Floch at the SOS show with a list of prepared questions about the Pink/Birch smocks. He was forthcoming and answered all the questions with what I feel were credible replies. My comments to some of the answers are in brackets.

1/ What country did the smocks come from? Poland?
Answer/ -Lodz Poland
Lodz , Poland was one of major garment and cloth manufacturing centers in Europe before WW2 . One of their specialties was dying and color printing so doing camouflage uniforms would be very possible. The Germans kept the manufacturing going until late 1944 (employing up to 40,000 workers) . Lodz was the last Ghetto to be liquidated because of it’s importance to the German war effort. There are photos of the slave labor working on military items, they even made breast eagles and insignia.

2/ Were they directly from a film studio?
Answer/ Polski Film works, Polish state film works

( November 13, 1945, the postwar communist government decreed the formation of Polski Film as a national enterprise. Organized under the Minister of Culture Władysław Kowalski, Polski Film had control over both domestic film production and distribution of all foreign films. In the first years there was still room for smaller production companies, notably Yiddish-language.[1]

Aleksander Ford served as Film Polski's first director from 1945 to 1947.[2] As Roman Polanski noted in his autobiography, Ford was both an "extremely competent" manager and "a veteran party member, who was then an orthodox Stalinist. ...The real power broker during the immediate postwar period was Ford himself, who established a small film empire of his own." With colleagues from the Polish United Workers' Party, Ford rebuilt the film production infrastructure, a national studio, and the National Film School in Łódź, which opened in 1948. Ford taught at Łódź for twenty years.
Poland's first postwar feature was Leonard Buczkowski's musical of the German occupation, Zakazane piosenki (Forbidden Songs). First released in January 1947 and very popular, in 1948 the film was re-edited and re-released, with more emphasis on Red Army's role as the liberator of Poland and the main ally of post-war Polish communist regime, as well as a more grim view of the German occupation of Warsaw and German brutality in general.[3] Jerzy Zarzycki's Unvanquished City was similarly re-edited to become more ideologically acceptable.
Film Polski was dissolved as of January 1, 1952, succeeded by the Centralny Urząd Kinematografii (Central Office of Cinematography).[4] In its important but brief history it released a total of thirteen feature films,[5] along with dozens of short films and documentaries.
Famous Polish Film Kanal (1957) clearly shows plenty of SS camo smocks and caps so there definitely were original SS camo uniforms in the Polish Film studios.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za7r...H3DSGms_z_Wyv4
http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/4...-Uprising.html

3/ Can you explain the marking “MINSK FILM 1947 in some?
Answer/ No (possibly because the ones he had were not the marked ones , or he didn’t look or care-see below)

4/ How many pink smocks were there?
Answer/ 100+

5/ Were there mixed in with other uniforms? What kind?
Answer -No
(this is interesting as it may be that the smocks that Floch got are the ones without the studio markings and the ones with the markings were from another source and mixed in with standard camo items.

6/ What year did they come out?
Answer/ Around 1984 or earlier

7/ How were they packed?
Answer/ Stacked in warehouse (this makes sense as it accounts for bad condition ones on the bottom)

8/ Did you have some of the dirty ones washed?
Answer/ -No, did not touch, repair or wash (well, that clears that up, any washing was most likely done by the studio)

9/ Were some damaged?
Answer/ -Yes, tears, wear and dirt

9/ What was your original selling price?-
Answer/ Sold for $350.00 each, I paid approximately $10.00 each

10/ Some collectors think these are fake and you made them (nonsense IMO) . Is there any proof of purchase, photos or anything that can help provide provenance?
Answer/ -Did not make, bought.-No records as this was during communist times and was done under the table

11/ Any other comments or background would be most appreciated

Answer/ -I was not the only buying them, there were other buyers as well
In my opinion this clarifies the source and probably where they were made. I am positive now these were a regionally made SS camouflage smock possibly made in the East remained after 1945 and were turned over to the Polish film industry as they were making numerous war films as early as 1948. They may have only been issued to troops on the Eastern front or maybe even never issued and sat unused in a Polish garment factory or SS warehouse. I realize that having resisted these for so long some non-believers will never accept them regardless of the evidence no matter how strong. At this point IMO everything points to these being pre 1945.

If anyone has spoken with Floch about this or knows who the other buyers were lets hear it!

Says the faker ................
Now the little notes beside each answer are .........well " WHAT IFFs. "

This is getting really really less about reality and more about fantasy .......just like the Pink smock.

[RobertE]

Yes ...........
This actually will make sense.

If Kai was truly involved in the locating and selling of the brick smocks, please do speak to him. Otherwise, leave him out.

s/f Robert

[kammo man]

If Kai was truly involved in the locating and selling of the brick smocks, please do speak to him. Otherwise, leave him out.

s/f Robert

Dont tell me what to post SON.
OK.

[kammo man]

Next year I am interviewing Kai Winkler.

DR ,
Some bottom feeder has a problem with your posts.
Can you warm the milk and sucky blanket .

[Dennis S]

I also spoke to Floch at the SOS it was a long conversation. I had no idea Nutmeg was having him interviewed . I am still bewildered no one else with strong opinions bothered talking to him . I am a fence sitter I don't know enough about camo other then owning one good 5/6 plain tree smock to make an educated decision . What I do find is this whole controversy interesting. I also remember the smocks being sold by Floch in the late 70s early 80s.

So here's my take on the deal.

I was introduced to him in the late 70s or early 80s and bought about 20 pairs of unissued political leader tabs from him that were quite real ....100percent to be exact..

At the SOS I approached Floch and spoke to him , he was quite candid and antimated . I found the conversation interesting or if you want to say interview . I find speaking to people quite natural and I have a decent built in bull**** meter.


Anyway to the point. Floch had a real ratty pink smock draped over a chair at the show. I asked him if I could handle it and photograph it and he replied in the affirmative. I posted a few photos and comments here .. Evidently someone else bought the smock later.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=951158

I then asked him if he made them or found them .
Floch stated although he made a lot of reproductions after the original wells of items dried up he didn't make the smocks.


I asked him where he found them.
Floch stated Polska Films and spit out the name of the director of the studio and the name of the person that made the introduction . He also said this is before "the wall fell" . He further stated he had this connection to do business there. He had accomplished this through this connection where he was charading as a procurer of film props for the film industry .

I asked him if he had any paperwork relating to the smocks .
He said no shipment or work orders that he remembered but pulled out a disorganized briefcase just stuffed with miscellaneous papers . As he was rifling through the stuff he pulled out a letter of introduction in German to Polska Films from his contact to the director . It was in German and I'm not a German speaker but over the years I can recognize certain words and the players names were certainly there. The letterhead and address corresponded . He then showed me his phony business card in regards to his film industry business and also the letterhead to his bogus company writing to the director of Polska. He told me this was a great method to get "in " rather then as a Militaria dealer trying to buy stuff for profit.
Floch continued with the story about when he arrived at Polska they brought him into a large room /warehouse full of Militaria , costumes . Props , etc. The first thing he found were 4000 unissued pairs of TR political leaders tabs. He said he asked them to sell them . He bought them about 3000 pairs at .50 cents a pair at the time , but had to leave them some as they said they may need some in the future. He said he sold them to dealers for about 10 or 20 bucks a pair. He further stated that hard currency went a long way in Poland back then and to them it was a lot of money.

This is where the story deviates a bit from Nutmegs interviewer . I asked him if the pinks were there at the initial buy. He said "no " but had picked the room pretty good that day and subsequent visits. He said he asked them for either uniforms or camo . Floch said they told him "not there " but they had contact with other studios in the East or Eastern Block and would check around . Flock said they contacted him later and when he entered the room/warehouse again there was a large stack/bale of the the pink smocks. He bought them for 10 bucks a piece and did not wash them . I think the story deviation is due that we conversed more then straight written questions and I pressed a bit more or just interpretatiing him different giving me a more lengthy answer.

I again asked him if he had ever made reproductions although I already knew the answer to that question. He said "of course" , he said it started when he ran out of Iron crosses and the dealers he was selling them to then asked him if he could have made good new ones. Probably some of your favorite dealers .

Every thing Nutmeg's interviewer asked and was answered seems to be the same as what Floch expressed to me.

Again I'm still on the fence. I don't see a smoking gun just more perspective that backs up the eye witnesses to the original bale.

About the bales it sounded more in his description as a stack but may have been baked when moved to the west. I didn't ask.

[RobertE]

Dont tell me what to post SON.
OK.

Believe me, tough guy, you're not my son. You are no relation in any sense of the word.

After all your blowing about talking to Floch, you slink past his table because you won't waste your time talking with "scum". Even though he may have answers - but you know it all, don't you? Why bother asking the guy who may actually know something?

Better to leave it to others to actually do the work.

s/f Robert

[kammo man]

Dont talk down to me Robert.
When you do......you will be called SON.

Dont acuse me of slinking by someones table......
I am way to busy to talk to this guy.

You come to LA.......
lets play.

[kammo man]

I also spoke to Floch at the SOS it was a long conversation. I had no idea Nutmeg was having him interviewed . I am still bewildered no one else with strong opinions bothered talking to him . I am a fence sitter I don't know enough about camo other then owning one good 5/6 plain tree smock to make an educated decision . What I do find is this whole controversy interesting. I also remember the smocks being sold by Floch in the late 70s early 80s.

So here's my take on the deal.

I was introduced to him in the late 70s or early 80s and bought about 20 pairs of unissued political leader tabs from him that were quite real ....100percent to be exact..

At the SOS I approached Floch and spoke to him , he was quite candid and antimated . I found the conversation interesting or if you want to say interview . I find speaking to people quite natural and I have a decent built in bull**** meter.


Anyway to the point. Floch had a real ratty pink smock draped over a chair at the show. I asked him if I could handle it and photograph it and he replied in the affirmative. I posted a few photos and comments here .. Evidently someone else bought the smock later.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=951158

I then asked him if he made them or found them .
Floch stated although he made a lot of reproductions after the original wells of items dried up he didn't make the smocks.


I asked him where he found them.
Floch stated Polska Films and spit out the name of the director of the studio and the name of the person that made the introduction . He also said this is before "the wall fell" . He further stated he had this connection to do business there. He had accomplished this through this connection where he was charading as a procurer of film props for the film industry .

I asked him if he had any paperwork relating to the smocks .
He said no shipment or work orders that he remembered but pulled out a disorganized briefcase just stuffed with miscellaneous papers . As he was rifling through the stuff he pulled out a letter of introduction in German to Polska Films from his contact to the director . It was in German and I'm not a German speaker but over the years I can recognize certain words and the players names were certainly there. The letterhead and address corresponded . He then showed me his phony business card in regards to his film industry business and also the letterhead to his bogus company writing to the director of Polska. He told me this was a great method to get "in " rather then as a Militaria dealer trying to buy stuff for profit.
Floch continued with the story about when he arrived at Polska they brought him into a large room /warehouse full of Militaria , costumes . Props , etc. The first thing he found were 4000 unissued pairs of TR political leaders tabs. He said he asked them to sell them . He bought them about 3000 pairs at .50 cents a pair at the time , but had to leave them some as they said they may need some in the future. He said he sold them to dealers for about 10 or 20 bucks a pair. He further stated that hard currency went a long way in Poland back then and to them it was a lot of money.

This is where the story deviates a bit from Nutmegs interviewer . I asked him if the pinks were there at the initial buy. He said "no " but had picked the room pretty good that day and subsequent visits. He said he asked them for either uniforms or camo . Floch said they told him "not there " but they had contact with other studios in the East or Eastern Block and would check around . Flock said they contacted him later and when he entered the room/warehouse again there was a large stack/bale of the the pink smocks. He bought them for 10 bucks a piece and did not wash them . I think the story deviation is due that we conversed more then straight written questions and I pressed a bit more or just interpretatiing him different giving me a more lengthy answer.

I again asked him if he had ever made reproductions although I already knew the answer to that question. He said "of course" , he said it started when he ran out of Iron crosses and the dealers he was selling them to then asked him if he could have made good new ones. Probably some of your favorite dealers .

Every thing Nutmeg's interviewer asked and was answered seems to be the same as what Floch expressed to me.

Again I'm still on the fence. I don't see a smoking gun just more perspective that backs up the eye witnesses to the original bale.

About the bales it sounded more in his description as a stack but may have been baked when moved to the west. I didn't ask.

One important word in here.

PROPS.

[RobertE]

You always react like a child. Asking you about the Kai reference is talking down to you? And every time you feel you are being spoken down to you'll call me "son"?

That will certainly teach me. Or if I fly halfway around the world, we can "play"? I'm terrified.

Save it for your keyboard tough guys, Owen. You do not have an ounce of collector decency in you, much less humility or the ability to learn. You should be thanking those who took the time to do what you didn't, but instead you mock them and make stupid references.

And before this thread or post is deleted, I would invite readers of this thread to see what Nutmeg and Dennis contributed - objective interview results - and Owens' usual mindless drivel.

Grow up.

s/f Robert

[kammo man]

You always react like a child. Asking you about the Kai reference is talking down to you? And every time you feel you are being spoken down to you'll call me "son"?

That will certainly teach me. Or if I fly halfway around the world, we can "play"? I'm terrified.

Save it for your keyboard tough guys, Owen. You do not have an ounce of collector decency in you, much less humility or the ability to learn. You should be thanking those who took the time to do what you didn't, but instead you mock them and make stupid references.

And before this thread or post is deleted, I would invite readers of this thread to see what Nutmeg and Dennis contributed - objective interview results - and Owens' usual mindless drivel.

Grow up.

s/f Robert

You just lat off the down talking and I will be cool.
Pretty somple.

[RobertE]

Stop talking down to the rest of us, and I'll be cool too. Deal?

s/f Robert