"K" Tab & Smock - the rest of the story

[chrischa]

Not trying to hijack this thread, but thought posting here instead of creating a new one would save some forum space. Anyways, my question concerns the picture posted of the Oberscharfuhrer in post#45, and it's this, did those K tabs ever make it onto early war combat tunics as was the case with vertical TK tabs?

Hello.

No.

The ‘K’ tab was discontinued in 1937 and replaced with the skull and k tab. It was taken off uniforms and would have been noticed and challenged if still worn.

Also, it was a very small number of men who wore it, on the camp commandant’s staff not men in the guard units. Men who I believe stayed in the concentration camp regime after mobilisation.

Cheers
Chris.

[derek]

Not true Chris. I know that statement appears in some post-war books but the "K' collar tab wasn't discontinued in 1937.
The skull with a "K" underneath had been introduced in 1936, but only for officers. The "K" continued to be worn by NCOs and men on the staff of the camp commandant and officers and men on the staff of Uebungslager Dachau. The "K" tab was still being mentioned in documents in 1939.

[Robert999]

Not true Chris. I know that statement appears in some post-war books but the "K' collar tab wasn't discontinued in 1937.
The skull with a "K" underneath had been introduced in 1936, but only for officers. The "K" continued to be worn by NCOs and men on the staff of the camp commandant and officers and men on the staff of Uebungslager Dachau. The "K" tab was still being mentioned in documents in 1939.

Do you know of any instances of the K tab being worn on fieldgrey M36/M40 patterned tunic? I don't think I remember ever seeing a pic of any myself, but would be curious to know if those newer patterned tunics had made it into general circulation by 1939.

[chrischa]

Not true Chris. I know that statement appears in some post-war books but the "K' collar tab wasn't discontinued in 1937.
The skull with a "K" underneath had been introduced in 1936, but only for officers. The "K" continued to be worn by NCOs and men on the staff of the camp commandant and officers and men on the staff of Uebungslager Dachau. The "K" tab was still being mentioned in documents in 1939.

Fair enough! Yes different to what I have read.

[chrischa]

Do you know of any instances of the K tab being worn on fieldgrey M36/M40 patterned tunic? I don't think I remember ever seeing a pic of any myself, but would be curious to know if those newer patterned tunics had made it into general circulation by 1939.

So the answer is yes to this as the black tunic was phased out and as Derek said the tab was worn in 1939.

But not in combat as I read your first question.

[NickG]

Amazing historical group with watertight provenance. Congratulations. The vet was obviously attracted to the K insignia as it is his company letter.
These young GI’s had absolutely no idea that “K” stood for Konzentrationslager.
(SS tabs they understood)
Doubting the originality any of these items is IMO absurd. Owen why don’t you just stick to your knowledge of W-SS camo garments that are assembled with black thread, your true forte! Bringing up the Pink smock in this thread shows who really takes the ownership of childish behavior...

[Jeff V]

Just to point out that anything from a vet's family 70 years after the war is far from watertight provenance. There has been many instances where vets have purchased medals and such at gun shows and the material has morphed over the years into they took it home from the war. I am not saying that is the case here, just that we don't know for sure.

[Waffenreich]

Amazing historical group with watertight provenance. Congratulations. The vet was obviously attracted to the K insignia as it is his company letter.
These young GI’s had absolutely no idea that “K” stood for Konzentrationslager.
(SS tabs they understood)
Doubting the originality any of these items is IMO absurd. Owen why don’t you just stick to your knowledge of W-SS camo garments that are assembled with black thread, your true forte! Bringing up the Pink smock in this thread shows who really takes the ownership of childish behavior...

Thanks Nick - appreciate the comments and I also think that may be why the K is here rather than him taking it for any other reason.

Regards!

Bob

[Robert999]

So the answer is yes to this as the black tunic was phased out and as Derek said the tab was worn in 1939.

But not in combat as I read your first question.

I should have phrased my question more clearly, were the M36/M40 patterned tunics being worn with the K tabs by camp personnel in 1939, or where they still wearing their earthgrey/earthbrown tunics?

[kammo man]

Amazing historical group with watertight provenance. Congratulations. The vet was obviously attracted to the K insignia as it is his company letter.
These young GI’s had absolutely no idea that “K” stood for Konzentrationslager.
(SS tabs they understood)
Doubting the originality any of these items is IMO absurd. Owen why don’t you just stick to your knowledge of W-SS camo garments that are assembled with black thread, your true forte! Bringing up the Pink smock in this thread shows who really takes the ownership of childish behavior...

Nick ,

Are you the new forum police who governs what thread someone should post on?



The K is still what it is for the obvious reasons.

[NickG]

Nick ,

Are you the new forum police who governs what thread someone should post on?
The K is still what it is for the obvious reasons.

I love you too Owen...I am in Paris right now...the city of love

[kammo man]

So don’t write silly pointed posts then.


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[Waffenreich]

Nick ,

Are you the new forum police who governs what thread someone should post on?

The K is still what it is for the obvious reasons.

Owen, I have immense respect for your knowledge on camo and it appears that knowledge now extends to SS embroidered insignia.

I completely understand why you wouldn't want to explain in the open what, in your opinion, makes this tab suspect so I am inviting you to PM me and explain it. I am being absolutely sincere in extending this to you as I want to hear your reasons so I can learn. I personally have no doubts about the tab because I know where it comes from, and have provided evidence that would be beyond reasonable in a court of law. But, seriously, you must have a smoking gun on this so I'd like to hear it.

I'm good for probably 7 more hours so I hope to see you in the PM room soon

Best regards!

Bob

[kammo man]

B
I would not post it’s wrong if I had no grounds to stand on.

I praised your smock 100% so I hope you know it’s nothing personal

It’s purely the tab.



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[Waffenreich]

Owen,

I understand that completely and appreciate you commenting on the smock. By the way, I found a "4" printed as part of the camo on the Autumn side literally right above the hem in the front. Here's a pic of it?

Regarding the tab, I know your issue is with it. I'm just asking you to educate me off-line about it. I've been collecting for about 40 years and although my strength is uniforms, I am always open to learning.

So what do you say - are we going to talk, or you just going to continue to condemn it without giving me the benefit of your knowledge?

vr

Bob

B
I would not post it’s wrong if I had no grounds to stand on.

I praised your smock 100% so I hope you know it’s nothing personal

It’s purely the tab.



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