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**Martin Stiles** · 01-21-2018, 04:22 PM

ss

Originally posted by SScollector View Post

Martin, all I care about here is the truth as always, and I have stated it here as I have many times before. If you think that my pictures or my comments are wrong, then please prove it, otherwise what is your point here?

Also, I am not appreciative when some vulgar "know-it-all" tries to say that all of the Quedlinburg tinnies, (including my own), are fantasy fakes when all he has to show us, is a POS cast fake that is obviously bad and nothing like an original. Maybe you are appreciative of this sort of BS, but I'm not, and I don't think that many other serious collectors on this forum are either.

I don't care what you think of me personally, but if you can't back up your reasons as to how I am wrong on something, then please stop this senseless arguing and leave your personal attacks against me out of this thread.

Chris

Its not a fissing match, the guy (jo) is trying to help collectors save money, work it out

**Jon Fish** · 01-21-2018, 05:37 PM

Chris- perhaps lend your example to Jo to compare with the cast one he outed, it could clearly show the right from wrong examples. oh look, a silver one too !http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...rg#post2640076

**Gaspare** · 01-21-2018, 06:32 PM

yeah I remember the spoon. what great detail!! Hope you still hve it Chris..

And the good news are the period photos of the piece in wear. That is the pin for sure..
So a limited number and only for wear that day.. End is they probably are a hell of a lot rarer that even first thought!

Last and only problem is [since it appears most are fake] is to get a 'standard' Like Chris's if he's sure isn't a mess like the one the microscope shows. Once the standard is accepted that is the measure of true authentic examples.. Truely the rarest of all tinnies...

**John T** · 01-21-2018, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by FrenchVolunteer View Post

Hi,

Please avoid "personal attack".
Jo is not my "buddy", you can check on the WAF i already had some fights with him. I'm not on his forum, and it took me one hour to make the various screenshots (you obviously didn't check them, especially about your "back plaque" theory).
But on the Quedlinburg badge he seemed to be quite right.

And please avoid off topic discussion.
If you want to start one on the NSKK badge, do it in the right forum.

But you are welcome to counter-attack Jo study on the Quedlinburg badge.
Why don't you sent Jo your badge if you think that it is original ?
Or you can also provide us with pictures (i'm not trying to make fun of you, this is not an ironic comment).

Do not start to claim like Kelly that "originals exist... but i will not prove what i'm talking about".

See You

Vince

no personal attack here, you quoted me and I replied, how can you (proudly) debunk something that is shown being worn in period photos?

**Reichskanzler** · 01-21-2018, 08:22 PM

The Quidlinburg badge is 1000% REAL and it absolutely does exist. Of course there are fakes like everything else, but that does NOT mean that it’s a fantasy piece, absolutely not.

**MaxAires** · 01-22-2018, 03:04 AM

If you go to Getty Images, click on "Editorial" at the top of the page and click "Archival images", and search, "Quedlingburg 1936" (spelt with a 'g') the first image that comes up with Himmler standing in the middle has 1 badge on the far left, 1 badge in the middle, and 2 badges on the far right.

The third image where Himmler is laying a wreath, 3 badges can be spotted - 1 on the left, middle, and right.

To see them in the best quality, left click on each picture and a new window will pop up. Then right click on the image and click "View Image" and then you can left click on the image once more and it will expand/zoom.

If someone has the money to buy higher quality of the laying of the wreath image, you should be able to see the detail on the badge in the middle and the badge on the right.
Image quality: "2703 x 3508 px | 22.89 x 29.70 cm @ 300 dpi | 9.5 MP" (Will be better than the period printed booklet image shown by ETN)

**Reichskanzler** · 01-22-2018, 02:36 PM

Here is one of the images that MaxAires was referring to. Clearly shows the Quedlinburg badge being worn during the laying wreath ceremony with Himmler.

Attached Files

0CDAD4FC-2D93-4441-A1BE-D837E966E4B1.jpg (38.9 KB, 398 views)

**GiuseppeC** · 01-22-2018, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by PanzerFrank View Post

Vince- Thanks for bringing this to my attention, as well as anyone who watches the you tube video. The video was VERY informative. Amazing how much money can be saved with a microscope! Hope others will watch the video and spare themselves a financial "hit".
Regards- Frank

Frank:

As someone who is very comfortable looking at fine details under a microscope, I STRONGLY DISAGREE with Jo Rivett's "Buy a Microscope, and Automatically Be Your Own Expert" message:

1. There is already a ton of mis/disinformation in this hobby. This is caused by: people with bad intentions, blissful boobs, and pseudo-scholars who only do 1/2 of a job.

2. There is a specific set of terminology that is used in the field of microscopy, particularly in the evaluation of metal objects. When people don't take the time to bother learning the Right use, the Right methods, and the Right words...all it does is create faulty research, faulty conclusions, and a lot of collectors who really don't know what they're talking about, but will use some of the lingo to try to sound credible.

(Witness the Conclusion made by Jo in this video: The 1936 Quedlinburg tinnie is a FANTASY, even though there are period pictures of it in wear...faulty research, faulty conclusion..)

3. Any real scholarly work, would walk the collector through what they're seeing, and explain the terminology and its meaning...not sit there and curse and carry-on. It makes him look childish, which does nothing for his credibility. Well-intentioned or not, Jo is doing a disservice to the concept of scholarly research with the cursing.

4. ANY expert worth their salt knows there are limitations to what can and cannot be told by microscopic examination. It is NOT, I repeat NOT "a one-size-fits-all 'Instant Cure'" for this hobby, as Jo Rivett is leading some people to believe.

I am already seeing collectors on WAF misusing terms, incorrectly identifying characteristics, which has lead to perfectly original items getting called "Fake" because a collector saw a video, or read a post, and thinks they're an instant authority.

I keep harping on the terminology, because it IS a big deal. Die fault, die crack, die flaw, and die state...are 4 different things...not "interchangeable terms you can use to sound cool".The terms mean different things, and would-be researchers sound incredibly dumb, when they can't even be bothered to use the language correctly.

The hobby already has enough bull***t artists in it...the last thing it needs is additional information clouding the thoughts of collectors who don't bother to do things the right way, the first time.

The main problem in this hobby, fakes aside, is that collectors all want to Run, before they learn how to Walk.

Just my .02.

**MFarbe68** · 01-22-2018, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by GiuseppeC View Post

(Witness the Conclusion made by Jo in this video: The 1936 Quedlinburg tinnie is a FANTASY, even though there are period pictures of it in wear...faulty research, faulty conclusion..)
.

He lives near me, and i watch the videos!!!!
Today i talked with him and he was laughing about it, and a few others had talked with him he said about this issue, that it is all going to plan?
Maybe a master plan that only he knows?

If i could show him where there is a fault research, i can get a discount with him.

but i cannot imagine.
But i have only started to watch maybe five so far.
If i learn more i will come back.

**MFarbe68** · 01-22-2018, 07:56 PM

and i have TWO of these plakette

**John T** · 01-22-2018, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by MFarbe68 View Post

He lives near me, and i watch the videos!!!!
that it is all going to plan?....
Maybe a master plan that only he knows?

.

I saw that from the beginning, reminds me of alleged Russia meddling in the US election, both sides duke it out while Putin sits back and laughs.

**Stossgruppe3** · 01-23-2018, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by GiuseppeC View Post

The main problem in this hobby, fakes aside, is that collectors all want to Run, before they learn how to Walk.
Just my .02.

Hear hear . . .
I couldn't agree more
Regards David

**MaxAires** · 01-23-2018, 06:53 AM

http://wwiidaggers.com/38935.htm

Archived the link above for future reference: http://archive.is/Whqf4

Wittmann is selling this SS Quedlinburg badge for $7,800.00 with a Don Boyle COA

On the COA it states, "OTHER CHARACTERISTICS: Does not have the box but is the non pinned boxed presentation medal"

Are there two types? The worn ones with pins as seen in the pictures and the non pinned which were awarded in a box? How do we know the non pinned aren't fantasy?

Are they worth $7,000+ or only hundreds of dollars like members here have bought them for?

How many were made? Are the photos taken the only count available? If so, it doesn't look like a lot of the people in all the shots we can see were awarded this badge, so are we looking at a low number of around 20? Wouldn't that then suggest almost all the ones encountered with a pin are probably copies?

**ETN** · 01-23-2018, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by MaxAires View Post

http://wwiidaggers.com/38935.htm

Archived the link above for future reference: http://archive.is/Whqf4

Wittmann is selling this SS Quedlinburg badge for $7,800.00 with a Don Boyle COA

On the COA it states, "OTHER CHARACTERISTICS: Does not have the box but is the non pinned boxed presentation medal"

Are there two types? The worn ones with pins as seen in the pictures and the non pinned which were awarded in a box? How do we know the non pinned aren't fantasy?

Are they worth $7,000+ or only hundreds of dollars like members here have bought them for?

How many were made? Are the photos taken the only count available? If so, it doesn't look like a lot of the people in all the shots we can see were awarded this badge, so are we looking at a low number of around 20? Wouldn't that then suggest almost all the ones encountered with a pin are probably copies?

There is very little information on these tinnies/badges/whatever. Any answers to your questions, without official period documentation, would just be speculation.

The trouble is in this hobby (and life in general) is that speculation for many becomes hard facts to fill in the blanks with.

Wittmann and his offerings are discussions unto themselves.

**SScollector** · 01-23-2018, 11:28 AM

Wow, I find it hard to believe that Wittmann or Don Boyle would ok one of these. I have the exact same silver tinnie that I bought as a fake for around $15.00 since years ago. IMO, none of these silver ones are real. They are obviously cast from post war made dies. I thought everyone knew this by now.

Chris

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