SS Panzer Grouping .

[rob NL]

The wrapper appears original,it is just not the one in the photo..All we are saying is that they are both just too close,insignia placement,rank pip placement and so on.


Now I don't see that as trying to cause trouble but I do however see it as trying to help as the jacket may have been stripped of insignia (several were of course, and some found in factories with no insignia) and resewn to look exactly like the one in the period photograph.


I/We see this sort of thing all the time (match the tunic to the photograph) and we are just warning the owner to be cautious (as it could have been sold as the one in the photo) it is certainly not trying to cause trouble as far as I am concerned as perhaps it was overlooked.


Regardless,SS assault gun wrappers are rare and Rob should be happy with it,I know I would be.


Glenn

Glenn , I am happy with it , and thats all that counts .

I know people that would want to have this in a heartbeat , even tough some "EXPERTS" ( BillCarson) say that it is wrong .

I appreciate the warning , but it was not sold to me as the wrapper in the painting\ photo .

This thread was supposed to be a normal one , but it got out of line , wich is a shame .

[Glenn McInnes]

Glenn , I am happy with it , and thats all that counts .

You should be happy with it,as it's a tough type of jacket to find.




Glenn

[merdock]

Hi,
Nice tunic and grouping like many have said not to many complete groups out there,even if it my not be the same tunic.
far to many put together groups ,imo perpetrated by the bad sector of our hobby.
I have 2 groups ,a tunic and a paperwork/award group that have no connection whatsoever but it would not be very hard for one to fit the other only a rank upgrade from sturmman to rottenfuhrer and they would be set as the tunic and the photo of the guy wearing the same type of tunic,but that will happen over my dead body.
all the best Merdock

[rob NL]

There is one more thing I noticed , he was wounded in '44 , in his schoulder .
Then wouldnt it be more then logic to asume that he would have got a new wrapper also .

he was wounded pretty bad I believe , he was in the Lazaret for quite a while , and after he got a job as a Sanitats worker , so he didnt return into active duty .

just thinking out loud .

[rob NL]

Hi,
Nice tunic and grouping like many have said not to many complete groups out there,
far to many put together groups ,imo perpetrated by the bad sector of our hobby.
I have 2 groups ,a tunic and a paperwork/award group that have no connection whatsoever but it would not be very hard for one to fit the other only a rank upgrade from sturmman to rottenfuhrer and they would be set as the tunic and the photo of the guy wearing the same type of tunic,but that will happen over my dead body.
all the best Merdock

Thanks Merdock , and that you will not do that it means that you have integrity.

[John Pic]

rob NL.....yes that is not unlikely. It would explain the collar tab...but on another note it may still be the same wrapper...the tab is identical and if it has only been sewn once then you have your answer..because IMO the tab shape would be near impossible tp replicate finding a perfect matching original.

Do not stew over the questions others pose though, you have an original SS wrapper and a nice one...enjoy it.

Signed "The Mad Injun"

[merdock]

Hi,
It would not take some low life long to make this tunic look like the following photo.

[merdock]

photo ,same unit

[Mike Davis]

Well, as an experiment I tried to reproduce the angle comparison made earlier - see below. I pinned an EK ribbon into the buttonhole to roughly simulate the other wrap.

The shot on the left was taken on a torso, and photographed from slightly above.

The photo on the right was taken with the wrap lying flat and shot from slightly below.

I'm not sure I got it quite right.

Anyway, in this case, to my eye the perceived difference in measurements does not seem to be very dramatic. I thought the differing camera angles might provide greater contrast.

Of course this little experiment does not necessarily imply that the earlier comparison is invalid or that the wrap in the photo is not the same as the thread subject.

[SMP]

Wonderful group, Rob !

[Serge M.]

An amazing and rare grouping. Best I've seen. Congrats Rob!

Regards,
-wagner-

[Richard P]

Mike,

I think your photos show some dramatic changes in the shape of the tabs, etc. when viewed from different angles. Your wrap also shows the typical placement of the eye and hook on SS wrappers. So do the current photos of Rob's wrapper.

I was wondering why Rob thought the portrait was a painting. In some of the real closeup photos of the period portrait, you can see the wrap has been heavily retouched.

It is possible that the photo was so heavily retouched that it changed the position of the hook and eye. All the artist has to do is make the shadow in between the collar and lapel go a little under the hook and eye, instead of right up to it.

I admit I may be wrong. A "hands on" with a magnifying glass on that portrait may yield the final answer. That part is out of my hands, but I believe this comparison photo brings up the possibility.

Richard

[Glenn McInnes]

The hook and eye are obviously in a different location,especially the eye..The rank tab also appears to be further back from the collars edge,and on a slight bit more of an angle.

It also seems most if not all of the touch up was done to the left side of the photo when viewed as that area would most likely have been out of focus (or just darker,lack of studio lighting) due to the angle and positioning of the fellow in the photo.


If it is not then perhaps I can join Mr Singer in a trip to the eye Doctor.





Glenn

[Glenn McInnes]

.

[B. N. Singer]

...If it is not then perhaps I can join Mr Singer in a trip to the eye Doctor.

Glenn

If it is not then I am way past what any eye doctor could fix; thinking of perhaps a seeing-eye dog after this thread.

B. N. Singer