SS Officer Converted M43 Tunic

[PMan]

I knew it.

Here is the eagle :

http://www.collectorsmilitaria.com/a...gle_011609.htm

And the collar tab you have to help me with this one.
Can´t remember where I saw it for sale.

Kurt,
See post 31 & 33.
Peter

[PMan]

Everyone pointed out the the tunic was a put together post war POS.

P.S. if you needed someone to explain why a put together tunic is bad no one will be able to help you.

I see what you mean now. I have always thought there was a logical and rational means behind detecting the appearance of post war applied insignia.

Thank you, Peter

[dhunter93]

I see what you mean now. I have always thought there was a logical and rational means behind detecting the appearance of post war applied insignia.

Thank you, Peter

There is a "logical and rational means" for detecting post war applied insignia, Lets start with a WH tunic dressed up with SS insignia


There is a "logical and rational means" for detecting post war applied insignia and modified items; Lets start with a WH m36 tunic dressed up with SS insignia. The pockets were changed to look like an an SS m43, but they could not find the right material so they stand out like a sore thumb! Just because you find real german insignia on a german made tunic, does not mean the germans put it there. This item is a fake made to fool novice collectors.

[PMan]

There is a "logical and rational means" for detecting post war applied insignia, Lets start with a WH tunic dressed up with SS insignia

Sounds like a plan. The floor is all yours.

[Kurt Meyer]

Kurt,
See post 31 & 33.
Peter

Peter,

Thanks! I did'nt notice that

Kind Regards,

Michael

[dhunter93]

Sounds like a plan. The floor is all yours.

There is a "logical and rational means" for detecting post war applied insignia and modified items; Lets start with a WH m36 tunic dressed up with SS insignia. The pockets were changed to look like an an SS m43, but they could not find the right material so they stand out like a sore thumb! Just because you find real german insignia on a german made tunic, does not mean the germans put it there. This item is a fake made to fool novice collectors. <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[PMan]

The pockets were changed to look like an an SS m43, but they could not find the right material so they stand out like a sore thumb!

I believe there are original examples (in books) of late war tunics manufactured with pockets that utilized scaps of other material. Actually, I am almost 100% sure of that.

[Luca Ongaro]

The pockets were changed to look like an an SS m43, but they could not find the right material so they stand out like a sore thumb!

Not correct Sir, this is in my opinion a Heer M42 with green collar maybe added in time.
I have already seen untouched late war tunics made by different materials.
Just my opinion.
Luca

[dhunter93]

Tell you what, you can have my share of questionable items and fantasy pieces. Feel free to run this hobby into the ground by "verifying" old fakes and put together items.

[Kreager]

It is pretty interesting how Peter Manzie always shows up when some shady items are brought into question. And he Always tries to play dumb after his twisted little web starts to fall apart. This is not only about SS cloth but in the headgear section many times over again (not in the recent past though, good job Peter). Ntz was on to you, and your little evil doings!!!

[NickG]

The pockets were changed to look like an an SS m43, but they could not find the right material so they stand out like a sore thumb! Just because you find real german insignia on a german made tunic, does not mean the germans put it there. This item is a fake made to fool novice collectors. <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Rebuilding the tunic "to make it look like an SS type M43" does not make much sense... Sorry!
SS patterns had 5 buttons (not 6) and 2 hole belt ramp supports... SS trade mark features that obviously lack here and could never have been re-created on this tunic to "fool" somebody.
Also the pocket material statement is inaccurate...(not able to find matching materials being an issue....????)

I fully agree with Luca and Peter, recycled (period rebuilt) uniforms can absolutely have non-matching pocket materials (that stand out like sore thumbs), absolutely NO problem with that for period untouched uniforms (or rather period re-touched uniforms). The Germans had to be very thrifty to keep all those troops uniformed and were not too concerned with pocket material not matching exactly! (the least of their worries in 1943 when the war was turning against them!! This is a combat tunic anything "usuable" was the norm!). Also the early m36 collar is absolutely within the realm of possibilities for a period upgrade, often done by officers for wear in the field.
Former WH uniforms did absolutely end up in SS service. This one however has been admittedly post war restored with mostly salty insignia to match the salty uniforms condition. Not a bad idea I think. Why not?
SS officers often had enlisted eagles for wear in the field, sometimes did indeed wear tabs lacking officer silver piping (again in the field) and sometimes also used Heer pattern shoulderboards...All characteristics that are shown here with this restoration example of a field worn piece.

So all these anomolies as shown on this piece are absolutely accurate for a period piece. With that said the uniform is a nice and salty piece restored to
represent something it obviously never was, but still represents something that could have existed which is a Totenkopf division Panzer abwehr officer combat tunic. Not a far stretch at all... but it should never be offered as an untouched original, rather a restored representation of something using a period uniform and period insignia. Some might call it a Frankenstein, I still like it!

Here's a period Frankenstein btw! An army tunic which belonged to a Wehrmacht NCO, later recyled for SS use.
Note both collar tresse and collar litzen were removed, and Heer breast eagle removed. Clearly a recycled Heer uniform with SS collar tabs and sleeve eagle not yet added to complete the conversion! Only black shoulderstraps were added so far.

Try selling that in modern times! In its reencarnated form it is an SS tunic! So based on this period Frankenstein example, why not create one?
Restoring something to text book would make it an easier piece to sell obvioulsy, but its a hobby and you have to have fun with it
(as long as you're honest about it, when you are ready to dispose of it.)

[themilitaryman]

wow cool pic!

[Dennis S]

Yes I agree there are non tetbook tunics that truly existed. ie. Heer tunics converted to SS. I also think it is very difficult to determine if done "correctly" a TR period one and a current jacked up one. Now we all know there are a proliferation of upgraded tunics on the collectors market. That said , no undetermined non textbook SS tunic even if done correctly should demand a premium price.
These tunic's should only be valued of the tunic plus the sum of the insignia.
Unless of course the tunic has a rock sold pedigree .

[NickG]

Agreed Dennis!.
Here's another period Frankenstein!

[Dennis S]

Nick, You find the best pics.