Haarnadel SS (toter Kopf

[panzer1432]

Thanks for the additional photos, but my opinion remains the same. The markings on the back of the skull should be "M1/21" (matching the markings on the banners), but the "1" is almost completely void on the skull. The RZM marks are very sloppy, compaired to an original. This has all of the typical signs of a casting, imo, regardless of it being ground dug.

Chris

Agreed...post war

[DMS]

I'm sure that it would be quite common for people to dig out original SS tuxedo badges from the battlefields these days, as the Germans always wanted to look very sharp and flashy while they were fighting the war.

Chris

‘I was just thinking the same thing...

[Robert H]

its a Tuxedo badge, not a hairneedle.
Sure not an original badge.

[G23]

Ihave no doubts that this is the original, since i personally found it, its authenticity will only be proved by a highly qualified expertise

[Ian Hulley]

Ihave no doubts that this is the original, since i personally found it, its authenticity will only be proved by a highly qualified expertise

Try Kai Winkler ... I'm quite sure you consider him to have 'highly qualified expertise'. He certainly has LOTS of experience on these tuxedo badges.

Ian

[Robert H]

"its authenticity will only be proved by a highly qualified expertise"

Just keep WAF forum updated with your high qualified expertise

[olle]

Try Kai Winkler ... I'm quite sure you consider him to have 'highly qualified expertise'. He certainly has LOTS of experience on these tuxedo badges.

Ian

which one is winkler's badge?

post-77043-0-59554600-1374434025.jpg

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

1) i forwarded the pictures to the owner of an original, i will update the topic if i get any comment from him.

2) What are the odds to find a pre-war tuxedo badge in the mud of Ukrain ?
In my opinion they are very slim, but again, i would love to have the opinions of owners of original tuxedo badges.

3) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden...of_(philosophy)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(law)
The burden of proof is always on the person who brings a claim in a dispute.
You have to prove that your badge is original, we do not have to prove that it is fake (but we can help on that though).

4) Many ground dug fake items were already debunked on the WAF,
Many websites from various countries are "promoting" fake items that are said to be "originals" because they were ground dug.
I have various examples for the Germanische Leistungsrune. The goal is of course to find "believers" that will buy those items.

5) @ olle : can we please focus on the tuxedo badge of G23 ?
To post blurry pictures of previously discussed dubious tuxedo badges will not help the discussion at all.
There are already a lot of similar topics on the WAF about the various recent "dangerous" fakes.

See You

Vince

[Robert H]

the bottom one has issues ...

[Robert H]

Plesse send Detail photo of the skull head of the ground dug badge

[G23]

I will definitely send, but a little later

[Robert H]

Thanks for the additional photos, but my opinion remains the same. The markings on the back of the skull should be "M1/21" (matching the markings on the banners), but the "1" is almost completely void on the skull. The RZM marks are very sloppy, compaired to an original. This has all of the typical signs of a casting, imo, regardless of it being ground dug.

Chris

Chris, what you think about the skull details from the front compared to the Winkler copy? For my view based on the photos from p1 the details look promising so far or is it a Winkler badge?

[SScollector]

In my opinion, the badge in question is not a Winkler reproduction. The skull details, (front and back), are actually better on some of the cast fakes that were made prior to the Winkler fakes. The markings and lettering in the motto, however, are more crisp on the Winkler repros. So, each type of fake has better details in some areas than the other, neither being close to 100% accurate.
Here is my badge for the records. Sorry, no reverse photo.

Chris

[TP Alexander]

I'm sure that it would be quite common for people to dig out original SS tuxedo badges from the battlefields these days, as the Germans always wanted to look very sharp and flashy while they were fighting the war.

Chris

As Beethoven used to say, during his stint on the Eastern Front: "Look sharp, 'B' Sharp!"

[G23]

Plesse send Detail photo of the skull head of the ground dug badge

here you are