a short note on cxn serial numbers on Uboat binoculars

[Mikedenmark]

I have tried to make a short survey on the internet for serial numbers on binoculars marked cxn.
Especially the navy models 7x50 and 8x60 for the uboats.
To set off, I also tried to collect some serial numbers for the cxn bakelite 6x30.

This is what I came up with.

6x30 bakelite: 24 found

380993 Lowest observed serial number
384156 bright red bakelite
422489 bright red bakelite
426219
428628
711045 bright red bakelite
7????? Unknown, I disregarded this one as wrong, untill I decidedly saw the one in the 7xxxxx range. I could not find it again. It was on a french site.

8x60 Uboot (kommandantenglas) 9 found

426553
426559 Seeger grey book, page 384
426560
426586
426628
426655 Last 3 digits uncertain. Might be disregarded.
426658
426678
426713 Seen in Australia.

7x50 Uboat 2 found

457002
457241

10x50 Porro I

461596

I have some comments on this:

1: The 428628 might be a misread number. If anyone have seen another in the 428 range, that would indicate this number could be correct.

2: The 7xxxxx range of bakelite 6x30 just might be postwar. Maybe for the french army, for use in Indochina. Like their P38 pistol made by Mauser for the french and marked SVW46.

3: The 2 serial ranges for the 7x50 and the 8x60 suggest they should be equally rare. Even, in fact, that the 8x60 could be hardest to find.
Only it is far easier to find info on serials for the 8x60.
This indicates that the 7x50 is indeed rare. After all, it only takes one train wagon to be blown up for an entire batch run to disappear forever.

4: I have included a single 10x50 with a very high serial number as well.

5: The bright red bakelite is, IMO a very late war production item. Many years ago, I learned that Germany ran out of dye during the war. So I think the bright red bakelite binoculars and the rare bright red bakelite binocular cases are made late in the war when no black/brown dye could be obtained.

6: I have taken the numbers from photographs when possible. Photo´s where I could not read the number was disregarded. On the other hand did I accept some numbers from compilations on websites created by other collectors. Those numbers are therefore not completely reliable.

7: Regarding production numbers for the bakelite 6x30, I can say this much. There are substantial runs below the 400000 mark. So the suggestion made by Dr. Seeger of a total of 19000, based on the serial numbers he had available, when he wrote his grey book, cannot be verified. The actual number may be higher or lower. The compiled serials seems to cluster within fairly narrow ranges. My personal guess would be a total number lower than 19000.

If anyone can move these ranges, up or down, please do.

Or, if anyone know of other cxn marked optics within the bakelite range?

I have found the following cxn marked instruments:

6x30
6x30 bakelite
7x50 uboat
8x60 uboat
10x50 binoculars
10x50 rabbit ear artillery binoculars
10x80 Flak
Machine gun sights
Rangefinders
ZF41 Sighting scopes
20x120 binoculars. Most likely in an independent range.

There are more sight types, for cannons and tanks.

[Bill Parker]

4

I have seen many more 8x60 cxn's when compared to the 7x50 cxn uboat.

[zeissasembi]

426590 here :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/8X60-CXN-KOM...item3ccdba4743

[11C]

Where does that seller find these? This is his third 8X60 in the last six months.

[Mikedenmark]

The other 8x60´s were Zeiss models, not cxn.

The condition is so new, that I have my doubts if it was ever in that holster at all.
There is virtually nothing that say 60 year old paintwork. Are the dioptry rings black on the cxn model ??

The seller may have a box of the 8x60 binoculars. An old box stored under perfect conditions. It could be. Who knows.
The US did bring home a lot of stuff after WWII, and some of it may still be stored away here and there.
And as storage´s needs to be heated, kept, and surveiled, they are expensive. That may lead to clean out´s

Then someone may be lucky and pass the garbage pile before it is thrown away.
You don´t think so?.. Well, I have heard first hand of some amazing finds.


Presently there are 2 persons in police custody in Copenhagen, under suspicion of theft of documents from WWII.
Not from our national archives, but from the garbage companies responsible for removal of garbage from the archives.
What apparently was thrown out, was hundreds of original documents related to danish SS volunteers in WWII.
The archives first claimed them to be part of the national heritage, then it turned out they had been dumped, and stolen from the pile of garbage.
( that constitutes a crime in Denmark. Garbage is either still in the possesion of the disposer, or owned by the garbage company. It cannot be taken without permission)

Why the archive may have disposed of part of the national heritage is a question unanswered this far. The case is still under investigation.

For those so inclined. What would YOU do, if you found a bunch of original SS soldbuchs in a garbage can? Remember: Stealing is a crime.

[Stew]

8x60 Kommandantenglas serial #'s

Hi Mikedenmark, I hav a set of cxn 8x60 in my collection They are 426579.
BTW I may be a cynic but I think the cxn 8x60 currently on offer are a repaint. If something looks too good to be true . . . it probably is! ! !

[Michael Downey]

Hi Mikedenmark, I hav a set of cxn 8x60 in my collection They are 426579.
BTW I may be a cynic but I think the cxn 8x60 currently on offer are a repaint. If something looks too good to be true . . . it probably is! ! !

Have to agree with Stew. U-boat 8 x 60 and 7 x 50 binos were never painted after assembly. All parts were painted prior to assembly. As a result, different parts of each bino have a distinctive hue and not a uniform colour. In addition the sealant used to seal both the desiccant covers and the top shoulder pads and the top shoulder pad screws was a coloured sealant and never painted. In summary, any U-boat bino that has a uniform spray job all over beware!

Incidentally, the rainguard on the captioned bino is not original bakelite item but a plastic reproduction. Note the distinctive scratch. I will post an exact copy that I have tomorrow.

I have one set of cxn 8x60 u-boat binos and six sets of blc 8x60 u-boat binos in my hoard. I have had a close look at them. They all have different hues on different parts - consistent with painting before assembly. I am not suggesting that cxn and blc 8 x 60 u-boat binos have the same characteristics, but what I am saying is that neither maker spray painted after assembly.

To be fair to the eBay seller, the seller is not anywhere representing the binos to be in original condition.

One last comment. I have seen one set of 8 x 60 blc u-boat binos in a UK collection that was as close to unissued as one could imagine. But that set looked nothing like the item that is currently being offered on eBay. In my view, the rough lacquer appearance on the eBay offering looks nothing like the original.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Mikedenmark]

I agree with Stew and Michael. It does look like new paint to me as well.
Only I do not have any cxn 8x60 here, so I have nothing to compare with.

What I WAS thinking was, just when will we all have to go to a lab to find out if a blc has been transformed into a cxn ? All it takes is to change the inscription on the plate.
You have to get a deep magnetic resonance scan to tell. I don´t even know if that will work in metal, but something like that, then.

Die hard collectors possibly won´t be fooled, but it only takes two happy bidders to double the value of a blc model after transformation. At least if this auction is a pointer. 5 grands, and running.

PS. Today I went through some papers regarding post war sales auctions of german military equipment.
How about 25 8x60 in one lot? Or 2 tons of german military parachutes? Yep, they measure in tons. Radio collectors would go nuts over the 10 tons of radio equipment in another lot. As new, with slight scruffs to the top due to handling. 10 tons. At least they had made a partial inventory of that lot.

[U534]

For the first time I opened the ebay link, my feeling says.

Looks like it neat and excellent is repainted, but admit the 8x60 remains a beautiful binocular. This year I hope purchase my first.

[48RMC]

and eventually the CXN bino has been sold for a crazy price

[Mikedenmark]

a new high cxn number. This time it is a monocular. Must be late war, if not postwar.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/2-WK-altes-Em...item35c306f498

cxn, Nr. 459754

[Stew]

6x30 cxn monocular #459754

Hi Mikedenmark,
For your serial number records on cxn binoculars - I have a cxn monocular 6x30 #460129 that looks the same as cxn 459754 referred to in your post.
Mine have the same features including the black textured paint . It has a standard Dienstglas reticle too.
Interesting that both monoculars 459754 and 460129 are not marked Dienstglas .I wonder about this.
BTW the black painted 6x30 cxn Dienstglas marked binoculars have been recorded as high as 463553 (source Michael Downey of this forum) .

I believe that cxn 459754 must be 44/45 production because the cxn/ Emil Busch ,Rathenow factory was damaged /destroyed? during the Russian advance on Berlin in 1945 . After WW2 ended the machinery from this factory was shipped to Russia as part of war reparation arrangements. I have not been able to locate any sources that suggest that Emil Busch, Rathenow commenced binocular production post WW2

[Mikedenmark]

Hi Stew.
I think all the cxn´s may be war time production, but I keep an open mind to the topic.
I can see there are some reports in US archives about assessments of german factories made post war. I would dearly like to read some of them.
Those I have seen parts of, are not extensive.
It seems the allies were more interested in gaining knowledge and frankly, stealing technology, rather than acquire data on war production. And the companies really didn´t need any publicity on their war efforts.
Even if some from a company management did stand trial after the war, emphasis was more likely to be on slave workers than output.

I don´t know anything about Busch postwar, but on the web, I have found a couple of tales from americans, who were close to the Leitz factory postwar. And they both mention that the factory did not stop production.
They didn´t seem to know who was the customer, but someone was buying Leitz products in 1946 on a scale large enough to keep production running.
I know some leica camera´s made it to New York around 1946.

I haven´t searched the web for similar stories about the Busch company.
Local german archives may also have collected interviews with workers or management people who was present in 1944-48. Someone is bound to have told their story to someone.

One of the things that amazed the allies after the surrender was that most german companies had sufficient supplies of raw materials to restart production immediately. It seems stow away schemes were put in action as early as 1943.
That facilitated rebuilding immensely. Even though food shortages was the prime concern for 1946. No one had done much about farming in the spring of 1945, and people needed the grain and potatoes to eat, both factors jeopardised the autuum harvest of 1945.
Even so, they still had time for industrial production.

[Stew]

cxn serial numbers

Hi Mikedenmark ,
Leitz and Zeiss,Voigtländer and Hensoldt factories appear to have remained in production at the conclusion of the war in May 1945, and we have seen many intriquing examples of these post war binoculars . However from accounts that I have seen the Emil Busch,Rathenow factory was so severely damaged by the Russians that production could not be resumed post war. A Busch optical factory re-emerged at Rathenow in the post war East Geman period but I understand that it was not a re-establishment of the pre war company.

I attach a few pix that shows an American soldier examining product at the E.Leitz ,Wetzlar factory in occupied Germany in May 1945.

[48RMC]

Very interesting pic Stew thanks!!!!!!