Graf Spee threads

[John R.]

The Graf Spee bells you see for sale on ebay and elsewhere are fakes. I have no idea without some more research where the bell might be, but wherever it is, it is not for sale. John

[John R.]

For information:

http://www.prensajudia.com/shop/deta...asp?notid=8212

[Z19]

Ships Bell

Speaking of bells, I guess I could pose this question here. I may have an opportunity to obtain the original ships bell off the USS Saratoga. I haven't seen it as of yet, but have already bought a medals grouping and a copy of the ships annual from the guy who has the bell. The guy who has it now says it sat on a pallet in the foyer of his wifes grandfathers house in Charleston, SC the past 30+ years. He says it's solid brass and is between 3 and 4 feet tall and weighs a ton. The only way to move it is with pallet jacks. I bought the medals grouping from him and asked him a few simple questions about the bell, but didn't want to pry to deep about it or I might not be able to obtain the bell. Anyway, what would something like this be worth...nothing I know of to compare it too?? Thanks, Alex

[John R.]

I do not think it is the orginal ship's bell off of Saratoga:

http://www.saratogamuseum.org/misc/s...erandbell.html

However, this is the carrier Saratoga's bell--same bell for both carriers. There were also 4 other Saratogas so maybe one of those which would make it quite old.

The annual is actually called a "cruise book".

Let us know what you find out, maybe you can get some photos. John

[Z19]

Ships Bell

Interesting...all I know is what I've been told. This guy came through with some cool items already and he knows nothing about militaria so we'll see. He said that the bell is stored in a storeage facility and he'll pick it up the first of next month. That article you posted noted the size of the bell which is excatly the size he told me and like I said he knows NOTHING about militaria. I know the grandfather served on BOTH Saratogas, the one sunk at the Bikini Atoll and the one which served during the time right after WW2 and through Korea. Thanks, Alex

[km-spain]

Do you have images of the Graf Spee bell--the real one. I think they brought it up and it is in Uruguay. John

On Angoia's books about the KM there is a picture with next caption "The ship's bell form Graf Spee used on the Scharnhorst", but I don't know if this means that when the GS was sunk the belt was not in her and latter was used in the Scharnhorst when she was launched.

[Yeoman]

Graf Spee tally band

I'm watching The battle of the River Plate on telly and it reminded me of a story my girlfriend recently told me which I've been meaning to post for the last couple of months. I'd like your opinions.
I was looking at this site when my girlfriend casually mentioned 'oh my dads got some of that stuff' I asked her what it was and she said her dad had a ribbon off a hat from some German boat, I mentioned the first boat that came to mind - The Graf Spee and she said 'Yeah that's it, how did you know ?' I then asked her how he came by it and she told me the following story.
Apparantly her dad (or mums) brother was a POW and 'worked on a German farm', at the end of the war the farmer and his wife presented him with their dead sons war items including his tally band and 'some badges' !
I have asked her, her brother and her parents about this and they all say that these items definitely exist and they are in a drawer somewhere in their house but they don't know where.
My girlfriend also seems to think one of the badges was an Iron Cross and they played with them as children.
I would've liked to ask more details but felt I might've come across as doubting their story which I have absolutely no reason to but I do have a number of questions.
Is this story feasible ?
Were English POWs allowed to work on German farms ?
Were personal items returned to fallen Germans families ?
How many dead were there from the Graf Spee ?
Would a POW accepted such German items !?
On release from captivity would POWs been allowed to bring back such items ?
What questions can I ask to validate this story ?

Thanks.

[Mike Kenny]

Is this story feasible ?
Were English POWs allowed to work on German farms ?
Were personal items returned to fallen Germans families ?
How many dead were there from the Graf Spee ?
Would a POW accepted such German items !?
On release from captivity would POWs been allowed to bring back such items ?
What questions can I ask to validate this story ?

Thanks.

Re the questions, imo;

Yes, the story is feasible.
Yes, but not POW officers (I have a pic of an English POW with is German farm "family", including Dad who was LW Flak).
Not necessarily - it's possible he had a second set of awards/uniforms at home for leave.
Someone else will have those figures, ut he did not necessarily have to have been KIA on the Graf Spee - he could have served on it earlier and transferred well before it was sunk.
Yes, a POW could have taken souvenirs home, just as non-POWs could have.
Ask for a photo?

Regards
Mike

[John R.]

38 men were killed on the German side including Captain Langsdorff. That story is possible I guess. Like Mike said, the tallies could be from a sailor that left the ship before she sailed on her final voyage, or, a tally bought from a naval supply store by another non-Graf Spee sailor. This was allowable in those days also.

The story can't be proved however the tally can. You would need to post it here front and back with high resolution scans of at least two letters on each side plus a full front and back side scan.

John

[Dennis GT]

Welcome to the Forum. I hope you get your answers soon and can post some pictures. Very interesting story.

Dennis

[Kondor]

Truth Stranger than Fiction

A great story deserves another. One of my fellow teacher's grandfather remained on the farm as a war related job and was not drafted. After the war, he and several other dairy farmers were "enlisted" to bring cattle over to Germany to replace those killed during the war and to broaded the breeding stock of those that survived. Imagine being responsible for loading 300 head of beef on destroyers so they could make the trip faster! Too bad he didn't take pictures of that! Anyway, on his second trip, a local farmer was so grateful that he gave the guy his entire uniform! Boots, Pants, Tunic, Overcoat, and two hats, one an overseas and the other a peaked visor. The man has since passed and the family is now going through everything. She put in a claim for the "German Uniform" as she is a history teacher. She showed me the overseas hat, but that is the only thing that came out of the storage bin so far. I am standing by to see the rest as she said that it has all of the gentlemans medals on the tunic. So anything is possible!

[Z19]

Story

Guys, I love stories like this. Thats what makes this forum so great!! I do have one for you myself. I had an old vet call me a month or so ago about one of my ads I run here. It turned out he didn't have anything but stories and just wanted to share them with me which was fine. He was a prison camp guard here in the states at the POW camp outside of Crossville, Tennessee.

As he tells it, a lot of the POWs there were often let out of camp everyday to work on the local farms since most of the men in the area had gone to war. He said the vast majority of them were relieved to be here and were happy to work on the farms. Most of the prisoners that worked on the farms were fairly free to come and go as long as they were accounted for and their schedule was known by the camp guards. In all the time they had the POWs in that camp there was only one escape and he was later recaptured several states away.

This camp had both Germans and Italians and he said that these guys had to be kept seperated because they really didn't like each other too much. He laughed when he talked about the Italians saying that it seemed like every other Italian was made a general!!

Just great to talk to these guys. Seems like one of the last generation of heroes is dying off and if you know some of these guys you'd better spend time with them because when they're gone.....they're gone. Alex

[Yeoman]

Thanks for the replies lads.
I am pleased this story is a 'goer'
I have been out with the family since and gently asked a bit more about these items.
Apparantly 'They're up in the loft' 'one of them is in a blue box' ? and there is a 'small badge with a red outside' - could this be a national party badge ?
I'm desperate to see all this but without getting offside with me birds family I don't know how to progress further...
apart from offer money.

[Yeoman]

Here's the latest.
A month or so ago my girlfiend said her mum had found something.
After she had gone to see them she showed me a picture she had taken of a cockade.
Although this went some way to proving the story, I was disappointed as I thought the rest of the stuff had gone.
She has just told me that another 5 or 6 items have been found !
As soon as I can I will post pics.

[javi_e]

a friend on mine told me that his grandmother was with a Graf Spee sailor when the ship was here, at my city, in Bilbao (Spain). 10 Nov - 24 Nov 38: Training in Atlantic waters, making port at Bilbao.

he gift she his Tally band but she put it into a book... and it´s lost.
the books were led to recycling....