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Excellent. I call this the "condensed font" which is observed more in issue from the Kiel/Ostsee depot vs. the "extended font" which I associate with the Wilhelmshaven/Nordsee depot.
This "condensed font" version is, I believe, the type worn by my father in 1937 (issued in Kiel) when he served on the Graf Spee in the Mediterranean.
Best regards,
---NormComment
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Well Norm, this is the first time I have heard of your theory of the different manufacturing locations and the subtle nuances of the process.
Very interesting. Could you share where/whom helped you draw this conclusion? Please don't take this to be a challenge or hostile, I am simply curious.
Thanks.
Best Regards,
JustinGComment
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I agree, this is a beautiful metal thread version of the Panzerschiff Admiral Graf Spee.
Congratulations.
Best Regards,
JustinGComment
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Hi Justin,
No worries. Forum discussion is all about challenges and explanations to explore a topic. The theory of the link between font variations and different manufacturers is based upon observation and rationalization, not any published source. Here are the essentials of this thought process.
1) These are produced on a Jacquard loom and each producer would need their own set of punch cards encoding the script for each tally. This could lead to each manufacturer having their own subtle differences in font shape or positioning — analogous to different badge manufacturers with their own production dies.
2) Common elements like “schiff” would likely be copied between tallies from the same manufacturer so that stylistic trends would be seen in their entire production.
3) If you study the font styles of a range of tallies closely, you can see that they separate into groups of font styles.
4) I noticed from my Dad’s old photos that his tallies (3.SSO, Marinenachrichtenschule and Admiral Graf Spee) all fit into the “condensed - Type A” category that I described before, and he was based in Kiel.
5) I noticed that if you look a range of SSO tallies from various numbered units and a range of SSN tallies from various numbered units they tend to fall into the two separate groups whereby the SSN (North Sea) units show the “extended - Type A” font whereas the SSO (Ostsee) units show the “condensed - Type B” font. That was the key to suggest there was a geographical association to the font supplier for the two main depots.
Having said all that, it’s possible that this applies to only a period of time and maybe pre-war when supply systems were more stable and not subject to the constant change and adaptation of wartime conditions. I simply don’t know.
I always hoped that people like Bernd and Markus could provide a list of known tally manufacturers to get a sense of their geographical locations and hone in on who might have supplied which depot. With that knowledge we might start to correlate font styles with specific manufacturers. A few manufacturers have been mentioned in past threads but there’s just not enough data to proceed further in this reasoning process.
Best regards,
—NormComment
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I have seen (in pictures) the bundles that Markus B. had for the Unterseebootsbeglietschiff Saar (Bundles of 10) but I didn't see any maker or other identifier. There has been some horde tallies of the "Kriegsmarine" font versions that have appeared but they too are in unmarked bundles. It is interesting. I recall a story that said that when a batch of tallies was unveiled or requisitioned and taken to the ships store, that they would closely inspect the tally to ensure that it visually was as the first accepted worn tally that they would keep as a reference. Maybe it is just us looking ever so closely 75 plus years later that they really didn't take to be too big of an issue? I do like your theory. To date it is a very plausible. I too was hoping for more clarity from other members who have a wealth of knowledge in this area. Well, it is an interesting study none the less.
Regards,
JustinGComment
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Hi Justin,
If you have in your collection a bunch of Schiffstammabteilung tallies in Metallfaden then look at the the “Schiffsstamm...” portion of the script on tallies from Nordsee Abteilungen and compare them to a bunch from Ostsee Abteilungen looking for the differences I posted. Again, I’m talking about the pre-war Metallfaden type here. If you find that most of the Nordsee tallies are the extended font while the Ostsee tallies are the condensed font then that would support the theory that each depot had its own suppliers.
Best regards,
—NormComment
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Unfortunately, all of the Schiffsstammabteilung 1-14 I own are all in cellon.
An interesting hypothesis and I look forward to seeing other examples and such.
Best Regards,
JustinGComment
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Here's the previous thread mentioning the theory correlating font with supply line, with some interesting additional comments from Marcus Bodeux:
http://wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/s...d.php?t=681973
Previously, in 2009 Marcus posted a nice summary of the ordering process where the orders were received by the two Marinebekeildungsämter (Kiel and Wilhelmshaven) who then ordered stock from the producers.
Also, back in 2009, Marcus posted: "I knew the names and location of four or five producers beside Neiss in Krefeld, but i have to hold something back for the book...... later more."
Unfortunately, the book project seems to fallen by the wayside, but perhaps Marcus could still provide those names?
Best regards,
---NormComment
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I learned something new today. Thank you Norm
This explains the differences in the tallys I have framed.
Warmest regards,
TComment
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KM officers wearing Observer Badges.
Their caps have LW eagles attached except third from right (back row). All breast eagles look to be KM type.
The two LW officers in front row wear cloth Pilot Badges.
Cheers,
LarryComment
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From the book: Heavy cruisers of the Admieal Hipper Class by Gewrhard Koop and Klaus-Peter Schmolke
Shipboard Aircraft
The ships were designed originally to carry three floatplanes of the standard naval type, the Arado Ar 196. The crew consisted of a Luftwaffe pilot and a naval officer as navigator/gunner. The latter, though seconded to the Seeluftwaffe, wore naval uniform and took part in routine shipboard watchkeeping and battle duties. Maintenance of the aircraft was performed by Luftwaffe personnel.Comment
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