My new DAK helmets

[NickG]

This SS Funeral procession took place in Greece in 1944.
As Nick states (the other Nick) I agree that it is very plausible that these are war time painted for SS use in tropical theatres and left over post war in the depots,
(just like the parkas, Saharianas etc...)
only later being repainted post war for Czech use (fire department black or civil emergency white) and later many repaired with Czech leather parts as they wore out...

The minty tan ones with solid war time German parts to me could very well be war time depot shelf survivors, moth-balled by the Czechs, so not repaints for post war Egyptian
or whatever use. I am more convinced than not....better theory than a post war foreign contract...with no proof on documentation/transaction , nor use images...
SS images are out there and the connection between Prague and SS tropical gear is a fact not fiction.

[NickG]

I found better images of the Czech resistance fighters in Prague with SS tropical kit in 1945.
Note the very rare SS ski boots with curly toes "Lapland style" as used in North Finland.
This (plundered) SS depot carried a lot of SS pattern gear for various theatres! So why not tan painted (refurbished) helmets?
All wearing Sahariana shiorts and tunics! These images are from the Prague uprising in 1945, no doubt the depot was emptied by them!

More on these SS boots here:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=207606

[trevor87bikes]

Has anyone got a battle worn example

[NickG]

From SVmilitaria:
There has been much debate over these helmets over the last 15 years. I first discovered these helmets in Prague before the wall came down around 1985. The Germans used Prague as a depot for tropical uniforms and equipment. The Germans had planned great offensives in southern Russia with the goal of eventually linking up with the troops from Africa. These helmets could have been part of the tropical stuff for those planned operations. All these tan helmets, I have observed were always made with German war-time parts and to German specs. Some collectors have made some statements about them being for an order to Egypt after the war, by the Czechs. I am not sure. Perhaps they were rebuilt after the war, but why? In any event it is mint and all German WWII parts. Yes, I have one in my collection too.

Wishful thinking ? Who knows? Look at all the minty depot stored G43 pouches found in the Ukraine (3000plus!)...Avalanche of such helmets hitting the market 20yrs ago could be the same story!
Less knowledge, certainly less internet access 20 years ago when these hit the market... So unissued depot stored time capsules after all?
These 2 lids sold for $385 recently... later sharp edge M42 style + earlier rolled edge one (liner image). All correct German war time parts (these lacking chin straps though)...Who knows?
Its intriguing though! but what we do know is that the Egyptian contract story is a most likely a fairy tale!




These images from GermanhelmetsInc... piles of shells...and mostly black repaints (fire/civil)

[NickG]

Has anyone got a battle worn example

Could this be a battle won example? Czech resistance fighter Prague 1945.
Helmet looks like a lighter shade of tan...Definitely not your standard feldgrau gray!
(has added resistance unit markings on the front)

[anmarlodz]

Long time ago (something about 15 years ago) I had one of those (completely) tan painted helmets (it was M42 helmet) which was from here, from Lodz, my hometown. Friend of mine had it on attic among others items. I don't remember if it was found directly in Lodz or was brought by his father from somewhere else (maybe from Czech Republic as his father was often going there) but I remember it had original liner and chistrap - was mint - never used , only a bit dirty, dusty and with some spider webs. Back than, when I got, it I thought it was was very late war factory painted helmet, as I heard that a lot of late war equipment was painted tan, especialy in 44 and 45. But than I saw also M35 and M40 were painted that way so late war theory of painting helmets tan ( because of shortages of paint or something like that fell down ). Overall I exchange it for other M42 helmet in standard green late war rought paint ( still have till today ). Than I heard about story with Egyptian contract. I wasn't sure what to think about it as the paint on the helmet I had very typical late war einheit paint with typical deep shade of tan ( like mustard ) and I doubt that this specific color of paint was used widely after the war ends. But after all I belived in it and was reapeating the same theory to others.
Now it seems that those tan helmets might been wartime painted and that make sense as I have seen late war gasmask canisters originaly factory painted in tan ( with no other paint under the tan ) which were painted both, inside and outside, with same shade of paint. And those canisters were found in diffrent places around Poland and Germany.

[GAMS1]

Nice pictures of the CZ uprising in 45 !
And some more proofs that these helmets were made and issued pre May 45 !
Not for Afrika of course but late war for the southern front type uniforms ...
Nick

[jacquesf]

Very informative and constructive thread. Reminds me of the old WAF discussions, which went into substantial detail. J

[Bill Hermann]

Very informative and constructive thread. Reminds me of the old WAF discussions, which went into substantial detail. J

I agree Jacques, I am enjoying this thread and am staying open to possibilities that these MAY be pre May 45....... Regards, Bill

[Wesley's Dad]

Tan Helmets

These helmets are intriguing as are the SS funeral photos. What we cannot tell from the funeral photos is whether or not those helmets being worn are factory tan or over painted field grey helmets.

This is significant, because every example of these tan helmets I have ever handled was a single layer of painted Tan. They are build from the ground up as a tan helmet. These helmets are not repaints unless they were completely disassembled sand blasted first. This is interesting because even German reissue M35/40 were not typically stripped before repaint.

[NickG]

It's kind of like the pink SS smock mystery...Many on the market at one time which put a blemish on the possibility of these being authentic. (Movie props theory? Foreign contract?)
Same thing happened to G43 pouches from the Ukraine of course...A flood of them... which made people initially very suspicious, but those turned out to be fine,
coming out of moth balled USSR inventories!
Opinions can change! I wonder what Czech forums have to say about these helmets? They are like " too good to be true"...too new...minty...so post war refurbished after all?
or war time sleepers in unissued (period refurbished) condition after all?
Again on most of these all the parts are 100% genuine! Its just the paint and the condition that makes these suspicious... So are they genuine time capsules after all?
(like the minty Italian material SS camo parkas coming from the same place, same CZ depot)

[90th Light]

These helmets are intriguing as are the SS funeral photos. What we cannot tell from the funeral photos is whether or not those helmets being worn are factory tan or over painted field grey helmets.

This is significant, because every example of these tan helmets I have ever handled was a single layer of painted Tan. They are build from the ground up as a tan helmet. These helmets are not repaints unless they were completely disassembled sand blasted first. This is interesting because even German reissue M35/40 were not typically stripped before repaint.

Another good point as are all the other ongoing contributions to this thread.

The single layer of sand/ tan/ brown paint has always intrigued me. Also the helmet shells are a range of makers and models which is equally puzzling. Plus the shells have no dome stamps.

The explanation could be refurbishment by an SS industry. What I mean, the SS had their own businesses/ factories/ outlets that made stuff just for them, their way. This is why we do not see many SS M43 caps with an RB or RF number. It would appear that the RB/RF system was for Wehrmacht supply. There is certainly a case that the SS had to acquire items from the Wehrmacht system due to their own industries not being able to produce enough to meet SS demand. However the SS had their own suppliers producing items exclusively for them. Hence why we see SS M43 caps with no maker stamps or RB/ RF number and other items with a number but lacking the RB/RF prefix.

My point, are these sand/ tan/ brown refurbished helmets found in the location of an SS distribution depot in the CZ in the same boat ? Are they the result of an SS industry refurbishment during WW2 to create a tropical steel helmet to go with the SS tropical uniforms being issued at the time, mid way to late in the war ? After all, we do find other SS items refurbished in the same manner such as the rebuilt SS tunics from Ravensbruck concentration camp.

The evidence coming to light so far makes this a reasonable question in this matter,

Chris

[90th Light]

Another observation has come to mind. When you look at the images of the SS soldiers in tropical uniform wearing their tropical painted steel helmets on this thread. I can not see one SS helmet shield/ transfer or party shield/ transfer on any helmet.

Now I know they are black and white photos but you would think the shields if they were there would stick out.

This raises the question, if they are SS field grey helmets painted sand by the soldiers or unit upon transfer to a tropical front. Why has no one painted carefully around the SS rune shield/ transfer ?

On the other hand, if they are sand/ tan/ brown refurbished helmets from the CZ depot then they would not have had SS rune shield/ transfers in the first place.

What do others see or think ?

Chri.

[NickG]

True that decal issue...Wehrmacht-Heer-LW sent troops to such theatres and the units were modifying their gear locally in the field to meet local (camouflage) needs,
Vehicles, equipment and helmets (painting around decals...) The helmet decal matter is a good point and certainly they would not be bothered with painting helmet interiors,
unlike these refurbished (tropical SS?) helmets !

Attached a Heer army trooper in Greece....No inside paint!
Now to find a close up of a Waffen SS soldier's helmet in that theatre!

The SS on the other hand had their own "industry", their own SS run enterprises, using a "not so voluntary" labor pool...The SS owned and controlled the occupied Czech territories for the most part (Bohmen-Mahren) so they had better direct "in-house" sources for their military needs, to include refurbishing helmets (to go with tropical Sahariana uniforms)...As we know, these helmets were entirely reconditioned in a professional manner and therefor lack SS decals, which per the regs, were no longer used anymore (1944-1945 time span)

[NickG]

Here some more funeral images. In the 1944 time frame the Waffen SS (Polizei Division) was on occupation duty in Greece and most often photographed with soft covers (tropical caps)
but sometimes pith helmets...The picture shows caps and piths...

The other image shows the Senior officer's funeral with proper steel helmets, as customarily worn by honor guards. All tan and no decals of course.