My new DAK helmets

[RGD51]

He said "KenN" and he usually attends the Allentown Show, but was not there last weekend. I was hoping to ask him about these. We have a number of old threads on these helmets so I will take a look.

Right Willi, somewhere in the vast realm of these internet forums, I thought I had seen some commentary from him on this topic. I know his posts on WAF have diminished a bit.

Robt.

[Paul.B.]

I've read everything I can find on the net about these helmets.
It seems the only link to Egypt that is fact is that these helmets came from
Czechoslovakia and that country also sold large amount of surplus weapons
and equipment to Egypt in 54/55 and with the political circus in the middle east
and the cold war in full swing i'm not sure these deals were completed and
I wonder if someone has drawn conclusions from this with regard to these helmets.

[90th Light]

There has has been no evidence found of German helmets going to Egypt from Czechoslovakia in the 1950's.

There are no order forms, no production notes, no invoices, no delivery documents, no address labels or photos. Not one helmet ever arrived in Egypt even as a test sample. No one in Egypt ever saw a German helmet like this at the time. The Egyptians may have had helmets left behind by the German in the period 1941-43 but they did not have any from Czechoslovakia in the 1950's.

Someone came up with a theory that because these helmets were a mustard brown colour and Egypt had some equipment which was a similar shade of colour then may be they were intended to be sold to Egypt after WW2.

Then someone else heard that and thought this unproved theory sounded logical. It grew from there. Someone told someone else who told someone else. The theory progressively made its way from one collector circle to another. Eventually it was being quoted in books and repeated at one show after another.

However, it was based on nothing and only one possible theory floated at the time for which no proof of any form has ever emerged.

All that is known, these helmets were found in mass carefully stored in a warehouse in Czechoslovakia. No one knows who put them there, when or why.

The helmets were found, purchased cheap and then brought from what was called the "East" at the time to be sold in the "West" & USA.

Once they appeared on the market, the rumours began about who and what they had been made for. This has continued to this day,

Chris

[DaveG]

I first encountered these helmets in quantity at a militaria shop on the Westenriederstrasse in Munich in September, 1990. The dealer, since murdered, had several knee-high stacks of these helmets in the back. As he was headed to the next Max Show, he coyly asked me what collectors would think of his helmets. I expressed my doubts and he smiled. I asked him where they came from and he indicated Czechoslovakia. My price was, if I recall correctly $160 each, and I passed. I believe that they are original WWII produced German helmets, liners, and chinstraps reconditioned and re-purposed post-war for someone, somewhere, for something. Until evidence to the contrary appears, further speculation is just wishful thinking in my opinion.

Dave

[Dennis J]

Ken does not like this forum and I think he was kicked off here after it was found out he sold a field police helmet that had the liner changed out and did not tell a buyer.I think that was the jest of it.There are more helmet collectors and dealers than Ken(I have no problem with Ken and I think he knows his helmets as well as anybody).What about that other helmet forum in Europe(I can't think of the name)they should know something about both the German and Italian helmets posted here....jmo.

Dennis J

My Bad.

[ROBB]

I first encountered these helmets in quantity at a militaria shop on the Westenriederstrasse in Munich in September, 1990. The dealer, since murdered, had several knee-high stacks of these helmets in the back. As he was headed to the next Max Show, he coyly asked me what collectors would think of his helmets. I expressed my doubts and he smiled. I asked him where they came from and he indicated Czechoslovakia. My price was, if I recall correctly $160 each, and I passed. I believe that they are original WWII produced German helmets, liners, and chinstraps reconditioned and re-purposed post-war for someone, somewhere, for something. Until evidence to the contrary appears, further speculation is just wishful thinking in my opinion.

Dave

I agree with Dave , If you have one obviously you want to go with the rare Third Reich unissued helmets theory . German helmets have been coming out of Russia Hungary etc for years and years before the wall came down a trickle in the olden days ( seventies ) now a never ending waterfall and no one has seen or heard of these until the 90's when they appeared en masse . Did the Ruskees get to the helmet factories at the end of the war and knock a few thousand out and painted them with army surplus paint ? did they find loads of unpainted helmets ? . The Eastern block countries would trade their mothers for a pack of Camel and everyone back then knew the Yanks doing occupation duty wanted German helmets Lugers Iron crosses etc to take back . The problem is none have ever come back with a GI and until a bring back one is found I am a non believer in them being used in WW2 and ergo they have little or no value . Rob

[90th Light]

I agree with Dave , If you have one obviously you want to go with the rare Third Reich unissued helmets theory . German helmets have been coming out of Russia Hungary etc for years and years before the wall came down a trickle in the olden days ( seventies ) now a never ending waterfall and no one has seen or heard of these until the 90's when they appeared en masse . Did the Ruskees get to the helmet factories at the end of the war and knock a few thousand out and painted them with army surplus paint ? did they find loads of unpainted helmets ? . The Eastern block countries would trade their mothers for a pack of Camel and everyone back then knew the Yanks doing occupation duty wanted German helmets Lugers Iron crosses etc to take back . The problem is none have ever come back with a GI and until a bring back one is found I am a non believer in them being used in WW2 and ergo they have little or no value . Rob

I think of the large hoard of soutached black panzer sidecaps and panzer wraps that George P got on to and brought back when the Berlin wall came down in the early 1990's.

I often wonder if they had come via Czechoslovakia from an unknown source and not George P, would we all trust the Pz. sidecaps & wraps today as much as we do ?

Chris

[Paul.B.]

There has has been no evidence found of German helmets going to Egypt from Czechoslovakia in the 1950's.

There are no order forms, no production notes, no invoices, no delivery documents, no address labels or photos. Not one helmet ever arrived in Egypt even as a test sample. No one in Egypt ever saw a German helmet like this at the time. The Egyptians may have had helmets left behind by the German in the period 1941-43 but they did not have any from Czechoslovakia in the 1950's.

Someone came up with a theory that because these helmets were a mustard brown colour and Egypt had some equipment which was a similar shade of colour then may be they were intended to be sold to Egypt after WW2.

Then someone else heard that and thought this unproved theory sounded logical. It grew from there. Someone told someone else who told someone else. The theory progressively made its way from one collector circle to another. Eventually it was being quoted in books and repeated at one show after another.

However, it was based on nothing and only one possible theory floated at the time for which no proof of any form has ever emerged.

All that is known, these helmets were found in mass carefully stored in a warehouse in Czechoslovakia. No one knows who put them there, when or why.

The helmets were found, purchased cheap and then brought from what was called the "East" at the time to be sold in the "West" & USA.

Once they appeared on the market, the rumours began about who and what they had been made for. This has continued to this day,

Chris

Hi Chris
The Czechs did supply Egypt in 54/55 that's a known fact.
What did they supply them with is unknown.
I think saying the Egyptian angle is because of the colour of these helmets is a stretch to say the least.

[Jos L C]

I see them as the many black painted helmets coming from the east, post war..
Also gasmask canisters painted grey and tan, used by auxiliary troops, post war..
The grey cans were sold as navy, but they were not ..
White painted helmets used by post war German fire fighters sold as Ostfront
etc..
If there's smoke, there's fire most of the time.

At the end of the day it's you and your collection, so choose the right thing.

Jos.

[90th Light]

Hi Chris
The Czechs did supply Egypt in 54/55 that's a known fact.
What did they supply them with is unknown.
I think saying the Egyptian angle is because of the colour of these helmets is a stretch to say the least.

Hello Paul,

this is my understanding of what happened;

"Until 1954 the Egyptian army was largely trained and equipped by the British. However, after the disasters experienced in 1948 the Egyptians looked elsewhere for military ideas, hence during from 1950-57 a small number of German instructors were used to impose German doctrine on the army. For example, German instructors trained the new parachute and commando units in the early 1950s. When the British evacuated the Suez Canal in 1954-55 the Egyptians turned to Czechoslovakia for equipment (basically Soviet), and possible turned to military Soviet doctrine as well although this might have occurred after the 1956 war."

Also

Some Egyptian auxilliary Policemen wore German helmets which were part of sizable stocks left behind in the North Africa by German forces in the period 1941 to 1943. Some military personal also used German left behind equipment and weapons.

However, no evidence has been found of German helmets being sent to Egypt in the 1950's. Newly made soviet type helmets were but not WW2 German examples.

All German helmets that have surfaced directly from Egypt or been purchased there have been German WW2 ones left behind or obtained from else where in Afrika.

The theory of these helmets being intended for Egypt is plausible enough but to date there is absolutely no evidence that this was in fact the case. One could equally argue that they were for Estonian forest brothers fighting the Russians in the period 1945 to 1955 or East German border guards. The list could go on. We just do not know who, what or why ?

The Egyptian connection was nothing more than a convinent logical fit to explain these helmets in the 1990's,

Chris

[Paul.B.]

Hello Paul,

this is my understanding of what happened;

"Until 1954 the Egyptian army was largely trained and equipped by the British. However, after the disasters experienced in 1948 the Egyptians looked elsewhere for military ideas, hence during from 1950-57 a small number of German instructors were used to impose German doctrine on the army. For example, German instructors trained the new parachute and commando units in the early 1950s. When the British evacuated the Suez Canal in 1954-55 the Egyptians turned to Czechoslovakia for equipment (basically Soviet), and possible turned to military Soviet doctrine as well although this might have occurred after the 1956 war."

Also

Some Egyptian auxilliary Policemen wore German helmets which were part of sizable stocks left behind in the North Africa by German forces in the period 1941 to 1943. Some military personal also used German left behind equipment and weapons.

However, no evidence has been found of German helmets being sent to Egypt in the 1950's. Newly made soviet type helmets were but not WW2 German examples.

All German helmets that have surfaced directly from Egypt or been purchased there have been German WW2 ones left behind or obtained from else where in Afrika.

The theory of these helmets being intended for Egypt is plausible enough but to date there is absolutely no evidence that this was in fact the case. One could equally argue that they were for Estonian forest brothers fighting the Russians in the period 1945 to 1955 or East German border guards. The list could go on. We just do not know who, what or why ?

The Egyptian connection was nothing more than a convinent logical fit to explain these helmets in the 1990's,

Chris

Hi Chris

Yes I agree I think that is where the Egyptian connection spawns from.

[Dennis S]

Heres questions would the Czechs have stocks of original uncompleted German helmets and parts there ?

The reason I ask is because, wouldn't they have to , in order to repaint them and
Put them back together to appear factory done.

Do these helmets look rebuilt or reconditioned as the Norwegian ones, or factory done , or a mix?

[kevinpre45]

Helmets

These will always be a mystery. Who found them and where? Certainly a dealer out there knows!
Kevin

[RGD51]

These will always be a mystery. Who found them and where? Certainly a dealer out there knows!
Kevin

As I mentioned in a previous post, Manions International Auctions sold these helmets in their 'Direct Sales' catalog back in the 1980's. I believe they had a branch office in Hamburg and frequently bought dealer lots of various european militaria. They sold for about $300 a pop as I recall. One of their employees might know, if you could find one. That outfit is now defunct thankfully.

Robt.

[Mappa]

You can still get these types of helmets...
http://www.virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=2124