Close up
-
-
I contacted somebody about these intriguing helmets and this is what a source of mine (with local Czech roots) told me :
(the images are of the Polizei Division btw, so to me all the dots connect perfectly, I am pretty convinced that these are legit tan SS helmets! )
________________________________________
Opinions from the local Czech collectors community:
Here is what I was told from a couple of people in the Czech republic-
Reconditioned late war - where not sure - but made for germans during ww2
Issued to at least one SS-Polizei division - never meant for afrika but for the southern front - but I believe the front fell apart before opportunity to issue in larger numbers
The Czech police used WSS tropical uniforms with these helmets postwar - that's why some have some wear to them. They even wore tan ss m43s which look like they never had any insignia on them
Every example of these tan helmets I have ever handled was a single layer of painted Tan. They are built from the ground up as a tan helmet. These helmets are not repaints. All I have seen had original late war leather liners - never looked at the liner band for dates - most I have seen were M42s
I have found lots of tropical SS uniforms and pith helmets in Prague - many pith helmets without insignia - not even holes for insignia - which supports that large stocks of tropical items were there.
Also have seen tropical and other German items with Czech army stampings from 1953 - have an A- frame with this stamping - also seen the SS Italian camo rabbit fur coats with Czech 1953 army stamps.
There were several warehouses around Prague for Navy, Luftwaffe etc - was told one 1 warehouse of white pullovers was emptied and turned into pillow cases by cutting off below the arm pits
If these truly were for export - it probably would have been in the 50s and by then one would think the Czechs would have used different liner pins - different liners and definetly not RBN numbered or German named chin cords - Czech pre and post war chin cords are different from the German ones. The Czech made a lot of German style equipment into the 50s, but did not use RBNr's - but some 3 letter codes that were similar to German ones...
Don't have one in my collection as I sold mine before I found out they were actually issued - but also never liked the look of them with the thin paint
I don't see any of these in the Czech Republic anymore ....seems most of them were sold off in bulkLast edited by NickG; 12-03-2014, 12:40 PM.Comment
-
What part of this summary is the opinion of the contact in the Czech republic and what part is a summation of details in this overall thread?Originally posted by NickG View Post
The quoted line above is a phrase from my comments in post 130, including my errant capital "T" in second use of the word "tan".
Not that it isn't a true statement... I'm just in Kentucky not the Czech Republic
I must say that the close up showing the tan helmet skirt is very interesting.
Comment
-
The info high-lighted in "Lemon color, + bright yellow below the line" is completely from the Czech source, nothing added, exact words, and interestingly repeating some of theOriginally posted by Wesley's Dad View PostWhat part of this summary is the opinion of the contact in the Czech republic
I must say that the close up showing the tan helmet skirt is very interesting.
comments from fellow members here... The Czech source opinion was segregated on purpose by color!Comment
-
We keep using the word tan to describe these, but to my eyes... based on other , unweathered items I have handled, these helmets are painted in the standardized RAL 7028 Dunkelgelb. My opinion of course...Comment
-
True its darker than tan and a standard base coat color for vehicles "dunkelgelb RAL 7028" (dark yellow-tan) in 1943 and later. This vehicle and equipment paint color was probably readily available and deemed satisfactory for Mediterranean operations. To me that color choice (RAL standards) is another indicator that these are war time produced helmets...Not some Egyptian Army specificed color! BS!Originally posted by Wesley's Dad View Post
Unless they used this German spec paint from left-over batches post war???...as well as ALL the liner parts being German, also left-over post war???? Still a possibility...but slim. 100% German war time spec! So I am leaning towards mothballed unissued originals intended for Mediterranean use (By Waffen SS Polizei Division etc..) in those theatres...but stocks never left Prague...
Here's a Czech built (Skoda) war time halftrack restored in original Dunkelgelb base color. Skoda did use this paint in the Czech Republic.
Last edited by NickG; 12-03-2014, 02:18 PM.Comment
-
Skoda, BMM and any other Czech firm cranking out vehicles or metal fabrications would have had access to this color. Their paint supplier might well have been Czech as well.Comment
-
I tell you what this thread has me thinking more than I ever did .In my day these helmets were everywhere and every helmet collector from here and overseas said the same thing that these helmets were post war reissue that were to go to Egypt but never made it...damn to think I had these helmetsOriginally posted by NickG View Post
and did not know what they were.The rest of the helmet collecting community thought the same thing and you could not have sold or traded these helmets back then as SS tropical ,only as post war put togethers.
Dennis JComment
-
A quite interresting fact is that both the Skoda factory and the depot were located
in the same town then : Mlada Boleslav ( Jung Bunzlau ).Comment
-
And what about this side of the same helmet?Comment
-
Originally posted by Jean-Loup View Post
I saw that also J-L, but dismissed it... That could just be lighting effect...shadow area appearing darker...
Thinking about this further, the W-SS was big time into camouflage with their helmet covers, smocks, etc...
So based on this philosophy, issuing factory reconditioned -refurbished Dunkelgelb camo painted helmets to their own unique "Süd-Front" spec fits that "modus operandi" perfectly.
Unlike Heer and LW etc...(those branches had to adopt in the field... as they did not have the facilities like SS Industry had...)
It was called "SS-Wirtschafts-Verwaltungshauptamt" SS-WVHA
From the web:
Some commercial ventures and assets owned or operated by the SS through its SS-WVHA units:= SS Main Economic Administrative Department
Land and forests
Brick factories
Stone quarries
Fine porcelain and pottery factories
Building materials factories
Cement factory
Mineral water extraction and bottling
Meat processing
Bakeries
Small arms manufacturing and repair
Wooden furniture design and production
Military clothing and accessories
Herbal medicine
Fish processing
Publishing of books and magazines on Germanic culture and history
Art acquisition and restoration
Production of Damascus blades
SS-WVHA (SS Main Economic Administrative Department) Group B was responsible for supplying installations and procurement and delivery of certain types of (military) supplies for SS (military) units and (military) headquarters.
So within their own "Fiefdom", a fuedel society, insert occupied Czech territories, (Protektorates) Poland, Ukraine (General-Gouvernement-Ostland) the SS had the luxury to deal with such helmet contracts internally in their controlled territorial industries, to fit their own needs, totally outside of regular armed forces conventional supply channels. This could explain the large amount of period refurbished helmets, they certainly had the capacity and (perhaps not so voluntary) labor force.
but who knows for sure...maybe its just all wishful thinking... but it certainly makes more sense than that Egyptian contract story! (assumption)Last edited by NickG; 12-03-2014, 06:23 PM.Comment
-
Helmets
Hello all
Ive always beleaved there wartime helmets! I have about 20 of these! Glad I kept mine!
KevinComment
-
Good investment! None of this is 100% for sure .... and you might ask the question so why would non German helmets also exist in this color?Originally posted by kevinpre45 View Post
Italian and Czech helmets can sometimes be found in this shade of tan (RAL German spec color Grungelb) so they probably had left over war time German paint
and they continued refurbishing helmets for civil defense needs after the war (adopting the color which existed war time with helmet inventories). using both original
and Czech sourced parts (liners, chinstraps). The Italian and Czech helmets probably also came from war time German kept stocks...
This is why German helmets can also be found with non-German parts too...mixed... Post war refurbishing with some being turned into fire department helmets (black over tan repaints) !
To me German paint (and parts) is positive proof that these are not some kind of a post war foreign contract deal... It's all speculative but I am more convinced than not.Last edited by NickG; 12-03-2014, 07:52 PM.Comment
-
Great thread guys
If these are genuine wartime helmets the same paint must be seen on a lot of other equipment meant for the same purpose.Comment
-
This came off a Hetzer...Compare! = 1943 DunkelgelbOriginally posted by Paul.B. View PostGreat thread guys
If these are genuine wartime helmets the same paint must be seen on a lot of other equipment meant for the same purpose.
Comment
Comment