My new M36 jacket - never cleaned original find

[tejanofig]

Nick,
Great tunic.
Since you were in contact with the original owner could you shed more light on how these were found in Czechoslovakia?
How many were found as the story sounds really interesting. Maybe the soldier lived there and the family placed them there out of fear.
It's kind of a treasure story.
Thanks,
jfig

[NickG]

Nick,
Great tunic.
Since you were in contact with the original owner could you shed more light on how these were found in Czechoslovakia?
How many were found as the story sounds really interesting. Maybe the soldier lived there and the family placed them there out of fear.
It's kind of a treasure story.
Thanks,
jfig

Thanks! I will try to find out more! I like such oddities...its real and real different! Again my hunch it that it is for an officer candidate!
which makes it extra special!

This is a very odd combination of different elements for a tailor-made tunic. In looking at the history of the 108 PzGren (14th Panzer Division) I also could find no indication they were ever near the Czech Republic during the War.

Johnny its original with original insignia applications. Like the thread title states....found like this in a CZ dwelling! Just ask a moth...!
Insignia has been on there forever.Trust me...or study these additional images! (posted for the doubters)
It was found with period 1940 dated moth killing poison sachet even...(which the seller did not know about)... it was a stored (and later hidden) tunic.

Units originally were raised from troops in certain areas but that changed with replacements when the war went full bore!
The soldiers could have come from anywhere...Even Volksdeutschen.. .(from Sudetenland-Czech territory!)
The Czech connection (where it was found) not being geographically connected with this unit is not relevant at all.
__________________________________

A top tunic collector from Breslau who is no longer active on WAF chimed in by email and he studied all the images and he also concurred that it is real,
an original unmessed with and very unique piece!
He is more focussed on W-SS collecting and has seen such combinations with SS low ranking candidates...
In his words:
you have here a nice original tunic ,it also happened in waffen ss that such a low ranker gets offizier looking uniform ,
(in the SS its called "Fuhrer Anwarter", such cadets...). I think in Wehrmacht it worked the same way! Arek

[Tim O'Keefe]

Hi Nick

What about those cypher's ? Lots of "exceptions"on this tunic, too many for me...great photos though including those from supperpotato.

Johnny's post #43 is a classic

Your enthusiasm is an asset to the WAF Nick

[NickG]

The cyphers are embroidered on tailor made straps and of course are real but faded from Pz.Gren green to a yellower shade so no longer matching the Pz.Gren light green piping...It happened with old thread dyes...makes the piece even more genuine looking.
As we all know lots of straps now-a-days on the web have been upgraded with added fake unit embroidery by greedy sellers. Mine are the real McCoy!

Yes Johnny has hit me with that one before! "Time for the Nick G. Flow chart again"....Pretty funny stuff! Since I have an appetite for odd ball pieces, it provides for plenty of discussion material, theories (wild or not) and of course opposing view points and fire works, sarcasm etc...Makes for good entertainment too!!
I agree that tunics with exceptions become (for resale purposes) "problem pieces" for those who don't understand what they're seeing or just want text book,
safe pieces (a dime a dozen uniforms which are a safer bet as an investment) which to me can be very boring.... Again I like stuff that's different, so I had to get it!

The supperpotato photos (showing Ost-truppen rank bars) have nothing to do with officer candidates, the theory why this uniform exists "as presented"...
All my examples are true "Obergefreiter-OA" status portraits ("Offizier-Anwarter")

[naxos]

When was this tunic tailored?

What time frame is this shoulder strap from?

Both look pre 1940 to me

The "108" is in old Reichswehr numerals and embroidery - the strap is the 1938 type.


Schützen-Regiment 108 was formed from Infanterie-Regiment 10 in August 1940 and was named Pz-Gren-Rgt 108 in 1942 .

The Infanterie Regiment 108 was formed in July 1942.

The tunic is old, no doubt. However, I don't know what it is but I doubt that it is Pz-Gren-Rgt 108 related

[NickG]

When was this tunic tailored?

What time frame is this shoulder strap from?

Both look pre 1940 to me
The "108" is in old Reichswehr numerals and embroidery - the strap is the 1938 type.
Schützen-Regiment 108 was formed from Infanterie-Regiment 10 in August 1940 and was named Pz-Gren-Rgt 108 in 1942 .
The Infanterie Regiment 108 was formed in July 1942.
The tunic is old, no doubt. However, I don't know what it is but I doubt that it is Pz-Gren-Rgt 108 related

I agree with you about the font of the cypher being "early" (RW-transitional/early Heer!)... You would expect something that might look more like this...
for the 1942 time frame...(see image of numeral slip on loop) and my numeral is more of a Blitzkrieg time frame piece (when the unit was called
"Schutzen regiment 108").
What farbe did they have as Schutzen Regiment 108? Infantry white or Jaeger green?

I guess an "old school" quality tailor could have made it like that in the 1936 style....(in 1942) The entire tunic is custom made including the shoulderstraps!
The embroidery can not be seen on the back side of the shoulderstraps btw! Pictures to follow!

Period portrait is the earlier formation "Infantrie Regiment 10" with same style (font) cypher embroidery on Waffenrock!

[naxos]

Yes, I think the "108" straps are off a Waffenrock and added to an officers tunic.

[Johnny R]

It is a free WA so Believe what you want Nick.

As the flow chart implies, for years no one can ever convince you otherwise and you will just keep coming up with "answers" of why it is what you think it is.

Knowing from the first post in threads like this you will not change your position. The only reason I bother posting is that you influence how younger and less experienced collectors learn and think and, a good percentage of what to you say is unfounded in reality and is based on misinformation or speculation and it needs to be questioned.

No offense personally but some of the stuff you come up with and believe that you are told by sellers is off the charts as far as being probable, not just this thread but 95% of your uniform threads.

Usually the most likely answer is the truth not the opposite.

[NickG]

Usually the most likely answer is the truth not the opposite.

Ok lets analyze this comment: What you are saying is that it is a put together; the fading is artificial, the moth damage is man made...oh brother!
Had this been a stripped officers tunic, turning it back to officer status would have been easy and made it worth more $ and MUCH easier to sell...
Why was that not done? I guess adding officers dagger slit and hangars to make it a true officers dress tunic is just too much work!
The 1940 dated moth pack is another indicator that it is an untouched 100% original closet survivor, seller did not know it was in the pocket!

Yes, I think the "108" straps are off a Waffenrock and added to an officers tunic.

AGAIN is technically NOT an officers tunic as NO portopee accoutrements are present. (no slits/no hangers) ! As Johnny already stated on threads before,
such provision ONLY lacked on combat worn officers tunics....Like M36 enlisted officers conversions for field wear which this uniform is NOT. it is a dress tunic and per the regulations officers would wear a dagger with such an "ausgehe" uniforms or at least have the option to do so when required. NOT possible here!
These are NOT wild theories, it is fact. Had it been an obergefreiter tunic with dagger slit I would not have purchased it since they wore seitenwaffen bayonets,
we ALL know that. Again that is NOT a theory, dress regulations!

The moth damages indicate the litzen have been on there FOREVER. Everybody can see that.
YES the "108" shoulderstraps could have come from a Waffenrock, absolutely. Since those were abolished... and if you look at all the other forensics (besides matching moth damage on the collar and litzen) the straps were on the tunic from day one, since the unfaded area is wider than officer's boards, perfectly matched these waffenrock straps!

One of the TOP collectors in Europe, (who left WAF as an active member for the below reasons) viewed ALL of my pictures today and stated the following:

___________________________
Nick ,I was able to see this thread abaut your nice and original tunic,i wounder you have the nerves to post good stuff for opinions for "internet colletors" ;-)
its not funny any more to trash good stuff................. i have my opinion but will not use bad words abaut them ...;-)

have a nice sunday A.J
___________________________

I don't necessarily agree with those words 100% as you guys are extremely knowledgeable, have amazing collections, and are top uniform gurus who have been in this hobby for a very long time...which is why I participate and learn (and I have a thick skin) but please have an open mind or give real proof if you see red flags, which are not there!!

[PZKG]

I am not always in agreement with Johnny, but I am with him 1000% regarding you in general.
You are the most positive guy I have ever encountered....

Might have just been put together for a kid after the war and put away in the floor, walls or wherever for insulation as seen plenty of times in old houses in Norway.
I am a pest controller, moths don't need 70+ years to do that damage and fading is achieved in sunlight.

Poor guy who ends up with your collection.

[naxos]

Ok lets analyze this comment: What you are saying is that it is a put together; the fading is artificial, the moth damage is man made...oh brother!
Had this been a stripped officers tunic, turning it back to officer status would have been easy and made it worth more $ and MUCH easier to sell...

I agree, the tunic was as is for many many years and not assembled to deceive.

Who knows when or why it came to be as it is now. Early post war re-assembly from parts, for costume, theatre, film, etc.

Exotic Panzergrenadier Obergefreiter however, seems the most unlikely scenario in this case.


.

[NickG]

Might have just been put together for a kid after the war and put away in the floor, walls or wherever for insulation as seen plenty of times in old houses in Norway.
I am a pest controller, moths don't need 70+ years to do that damage and fading is achieved in sunlight.

Show me an officers dress tunic without hangers and support straps and I might be open minded that it was put together
on or around December the 12th, 1946

[NickG]

Nick,
Great tunic.
Since you were in contact with the original owner could you shed more light on how these were found in Czechoslovakia?
How many were found as the story sounds really interesting. Maybe the soldier lived there and the family placed them there out of fear.
It's kind of a treasure story.
Thanks,
jfig

This is what I found out on the treasure story! The hoard: (all original and unmessed with and all slightly soiled and all with minor moth damage)
These 4 artifacts turned up together ALL hidden under the floor boards of a Czech residence...!
I picked the most exotic one since I already own the combat uniforms!

[Johnny R]

I am not even reading what you are writing as it is circular and I have read all of it before in countless other threads.

No one knows when it was put together aside from the person that did it.

I am saying it is more likely it is post war assembled and you do not agree with that so there you go. You never agree with anyone unless they follow your desired interpretations and in this case we will never know if it was put together in the 1960s as a costume or by a collector or last month etc. If it was put together 40 years ago and now it appears "old" and was mothed how would it look different from being assembled in 1944?

The moth packets like tram tickets can be bought on German Ebay and really prove nothing towards it being real in my opinion.

Daggers were not worn with officer field tunics, some have slits, many don't. Early in the war and before field tunics were tailor made and very high quality it is not necessarily a dress tunic.

[naxos]

Show me an officers dress tunic without hangers and support straps and I might be open minded that it was put together
on or around December the 12th, 1946

There are plenty of officers field tunics without hangers.

This tunic is an officer (or senior NCO) tunic by design. Look at the cuffs!

For you to say that this is a "Mannschaften Rock" because it has no dagger hanger is incorrect.

Can you show another Obergefreiter (not an NCO) tunic with cuffs like that?

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