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**Johnny R** · 12-22-2010, 03:49 PM

So everything is in one place- Here is the quote from member "Mels" post in the other Skull thread regarding what he was told or saw-

In a German newspaper a picture was shown of workmen holding in their hands dozens of Totenkopfs. Supposedly these were un-earthed when they were tearing down an old barrack near Berlin in the sand under the basement.

And the images that he provided in the other thread of two types of skulls he was told came from the above location-

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**David Fettes** · 12-22-2010, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by Brad Posey View Post

But where is the documentation that supports the real “Berlin Hoard”?
The only “documentation” that I know of is the newspaper article that Mr Sandbox displays on his table at the shows…..

My gut feeling is why does he need to display, not only a box full of dirt but the newspaper cutting as well. Its like an ugly woman with too much makeup, short skirt and a low cut top. Its all camouflage, somebody is hiding something, and it aint pretty.

**Ivan Barker** · 12-22-2010, 03:51 PM

Mr. Posey,

I'm tracking.....

**Johnny R** · 12-22-2010, 03:51 PM

Here are the images of the other types

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**David Fettes** · 12-22-2010, 03:52 PM

I think the newspaper cutting and the dirt are fine, its the rest that's fake.

**Johnny R** · 12-22-2010, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by David Fettes View Post

I think the newspaper cutting and the dirt are fine, its the rest that's fake.

Which is the same as all the Stalingrad claims etc. None of this should be very surprising, a dealer lying to make money and push junk. That started the day after the War ended.

**David Fettes** · 12-22-2010, 04:02 PM

Just one more thing, a lot of Barracks in Germany used a huge amount of sand in the attics to prevent incendiary devices burning the buildings down.

So to recap:-

Is the Berlin hoard real? IMO yes.
Is the papercutting real? IMO yes.
Is the sandman full of crap? IMO yes.

.

**Dmv** · 12-22-2010, 04:43 PM

Then what are the differences between the real hoard skulls and Sandmans ones??!!

**Johnny R** · 12-22-2010, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by Dmv View Post

Then what are the differences between the real hoard skulls and Sandmans ones??!!

There was never enough evidence presented to address that. You need skulls that are documented to have come from the hoard to compare to the others.

This is real simple math for me. It is the same deal as the other hoard finds etc. When a cache is found sellers push fake stuff claiming it is from the real hoard.

**Dmv** · 12-22-2010, 05:45 PM

Was afraid of that...so in the end it will remain a mistery

and even bigger if in this case, the fakes pre-date (DM price) the hoard (2004)!

**Jos L C** · 12-22-2010, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by Johnny R View Post

Here are the images of the other types

One thing they forgot and that's to give the solder a vintage look ..

Here's a army cap eagle with the grond dug or attic dug look, same problem .., a 100% fake, wrong metal, wrong prongs, wrong solder.

If someone is offering real items for less, I suppose 1st dealer in line will take them all in 1st second, no ?

Jos

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78a.jpg (37.4 KB, 225 views)

**checkit** · 12-22-2010, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by Ivan Barker View Post

Checkit,

Could you post those pics so we can get a visual on what you have mentioned?

Here is a thread where I posted a well-made electroformed badge. There was some discussion about it, but I am convinced it is a repro coming out of Germany.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=474854

I also have some pics of an electroformed badge that should have been disposed of as a reject, but it got listed on eBay anyway. It shows some of the basic flaws that can show up in an electroformed badge - completely different than the problems with a cast copy.

**checkit** · 12-22-2010, 09:38 PM

Here is an electroformed badge that is basically an amateur job. Three problems here.

1) When the badge was pressed into a piece of soft wax, the wax was not allowed to harden completely before removing the badge, and the skull got deformed. You can see that it is way askew, in a way that could never happen with a die struck badge.

2) The wax impression was then coated with a conductive paint. This guy put the paint on too thick, and it orange peeled. The result was a mottled look on the front of the badge which is clearly not patina when you look at it with a magnifier. Again, something that would never happen with a die struck badge.

3) The back shows the grainy look caused by electroforming, especially when the wrong amperage is applied. That is why many electroformed badges are covered up on the back and made to look like a hollow badge. Because, once again, this would never happen with a die struck badge.

Electroforming is so precise, you can use it to make a metal copy of a fingerprint. But the maker has no control over the back of the medal.

In fact, ONE WAY to explain away the graininess is to make it a GROUND DUG or SANDBOX badge, with heavy patina and pitting.

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**checkit** · 12-22-2010, 09:39 PM

Note the grainy "Ground Dug" look on the back.

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tank-badge-09.jpg (41.6 KB, 219 views)

**Brad Posey** · 12-23-2010, 01:56 AM

IMO the skulls shown in post 91 and 94 are from the Sandbox Man....what he sells looks exactly like this, in fact they look like all of the skulls in this thread that are said to be "Berlin Hoard".

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