Generalleutnant Beukemann Tunic

[JG 51]

I think we should have a pinned thread for stripped tunics on the WH uniforms area.

Good idea

[Johnny R]

I wrote the moderators about the pinned thread. I also think it is a good idea.

IMO dealers that intentionally deceive buyers should be dragged behind pick-ups on gravel.

[pep]

hello everybody.
I did un-suscribe about this thread as far as had no more interest to me. didn't note about this urgent matter.
told by my friend, the actual owner, wants to let know that he didn't know anything about this matter -he's not member of the WAF- and has been contact by seller and full refund plus shipping has been offered.
everything is OK.
tunic on its way.
...
by my side, just want to let know that I had the tunic in my hands and its an incredible job. never seen before. you'll never tell that has been restored. all sewn in original thread and the usual way you want to see at any tunic around.
as tunic collector this matter worries me very much ... what about all expensive tunics that can't be contrasted??? ... how many EXPERTLY restored tunics like this can be in our trusting hands???????????? as they pass over usual collector tests????
now my friend has been lucky and the seller totally honest .... CHECK hardly YOUR COLLECTIONS!!, folks.

[Soldat de Fer]

hello everybody.
I did un-suscribe about this thread as far as had no more interest to me. didn't note about this urgent matter.
told by my friend, the actual owner, wants to let know that he didn't know anything about this matter -he's not member of the WAF- and has been contact by seller and full refund plus shipping has been offered.
everything is OK.
tunic on its way.
...
by my side, just want to let know that I had the tunic in my hands and its an incredible job. never seen before. you'll never tell that has been restored. all sewn in original thread and the usual way you want to see at any tunic around.
as tunic collector this matter worries me very much ... what about all expensive tunics that can't be contrasted??? ... how many EXPERTLY restored tunics like this can be in our confident hands???????????? as they pass over usual collector tests????
now my friend has been lucky and the seller totally honest .... CHECK hardly YOUr COLLECTIONS!!, my friends.

Hello
This one was easy because a former owner happened to have the pictures of the tunic , before restoration , going to be a lot harder for any other tunics made with such a quality restoration job .
Regards
P-Y

[chrisson007]

Hello
This one was easy because a former owner happened to have the pictures of the tunic , before restoration , going to be a lot harder for any other tunics made with such a quality restoration job .
Regards
P-Y

Hello,

of course with the pictures from the unrestored tunic its no problem. But i think when a tailor knows his job and the items how are getting new on a tunic are perfect and original, then there is no way to know for 100% if its ok or not. Also no one knows what some tailors in wartime do. When a Soilder goes to a private Tailor, this works for sure a little bit diffrend to others. And why should a very good tailor with original Items today not also do the same good job? I think everyone must proof by himself if he likes a tunic or not. Only my opinion.

[Renaud]

One point makes me wonder : if some experienced collectors could not expertise it as restored, it certainly means that stitching of original insignias is not visible ; so, has the mysterious tailor made disapear this stitching (is it possible, even partially ?) ? Has he found some insignias with the exact shape and dimensions to sew them on the exact previous stitching ? Or previous stitching were hand done, then are no more visible today ?

[DonC]

There are certainly tricks to hide old stitching on the badge cloth, and a slightly oversized breast eagle would cover any evidence of the previous bird. The bastard who did this was out to scam a lot of money off of someone.

Don

[Johnny R]

There are many tricks to restore tunics and to hide evidence of old stitching. It is actually very easy when you know what you are doing. I also could and have produced tunics that could be sold as real but I would never do that and am not a POS scumbag like these fine fellows who created the Generals tunic and sold it as real.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=326298

I have no problem with restoring but what these people are doing is literally criminal.

To assess the scope of this problem all you need to really do is possess knowledge of basic math and look at dealer websites. Ask yourself how it is possible they constantly have fantastically rare uniforms for sale. Even more interesting is evaluating what is the likely chance that they somehow can magically consistantly produce items on a wish list after 30-60 days- even named items to specific officers. We are only fooling ourselves and these people are making a good living on our faith in assumed honestly.

[CWP]

I have always maintained that hand sewn is hand sewn and that there is no way to tell when the insignia was applied, and this tunic is a great example of this truth. Anyone who claims that they can say with certainty when hand-sewn insignia was applied is not being honest, in my opinion. Original thread is widely available and it is not hard to age a sewing job to make it look like the insignia has always been there. I have seen absolutely original tunics with crude and sloppy stitching, and restored tunics assembled with amazing skill.

[Renaud]

I have no problem with restoring

I have, but you already know I think

When I buy a tunic, I never, never think it is all period applied, even if it seems to be. Like someone here on WAF said to me, reapplied insignias are not a problem since a huge proportion of original garments have been denazified. So, I like buying uniforms with obviously resewn insignias. In these cases, I know what to think !
This general tunic is a good lesson for all of us. There has been an other with a doubtful general tunic from Weitze sometime ago, but I couldn't find it.

[LRRPS]

Agree with New Kid and Chris, I always assume my tunics have had at least the eagle replaced.

I started out collecting in the 80's, most of the tunics I found where missing all or some insignia.

I had my grandma reapply it - she worked at a clothing factory before the war, and had one of those really old sewing machines. When possible she used that, if not applied by hand.

Noone today will be able to tell the difference between her work, and period applied insignia.

[JG 51]

Agree with New Kid and Chris, I always assume my tunics have had at least the eagle replaced.

I started out collecting in the 80's, most of the tunics I found where missing all or some insignia.

I had my grandma reapply it - she worked at a clothing factory before the war, and had one of those really old sewing machines. When possible she used that, if not applied by hand.

Noone today will be able to tell the difference between her work, and period applied insignia.

Very intresting. When I started out collecting I just wanted to have items from WWII and did not care about if the insignia were attached post-45. But due to the high prices on tunics this became important. I got obsessed and wanted 100% proof and searched for ways to define if all insignia were pre-45 attached, just to find out that it is impossible to tell if it is. The big money kind of spoils the fun in collecting german WWII militaria cause it creates a witch hunt and fantasy evidence of pre-45 applied insignia.

[Johnny R]

My Dad was in the War and essentially has collected since he picked up his first helmet in 1944. He has told me many times it was standard procedure to remove eagles from POW tunics and after the War people still wearing uniforms had removed eagles and anything else with a swastika. Most tunics have replaced eagles. The Generals tunic is a very different matter and IMO whoever intially restored it and sold it as real is a criminal.

[JG 51]

My Dad was in the War and essentially has collected since he picked up his first helmet in 1944. He has told me many times it was standard procedure to remove POW tunics and after the War people still wearing uniforms had removed eagles and anything else with a swastika. Most tunics have replaced eagles. The Generals tunic is a very different matter and IMO whoever intially restored it and sold it as real is a criminal.

I agree, if restored it should definitly be sold s one. Tragiclly a lot of restored tunics are sold as 100% pre-45 without being so, perhaps without the sellers knowlage.

[Johnny R]

I agree, if restored it should definitly be sold s one. Tragiclly a lot of restored tunics are sold as 100% pre-45 without being that, perhaps without the sellers knowlage.

It is literally a cottage industry and people are making hundreds of thousands of dollars every year producing and selling crap. Many people are involved on both sides of the pond BUT it is getting harder to get away with it. That is why the WA is so important and communication is the key to protecting ourselves.