I have searched 3 times now and I can not find the website. Can someone post a link? Thanks,
Richard P
Richard P
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hello Richard,
althought not directly about first model hbt pz wrap,
this one might help :
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...t=hsc+fake+hbt
derkaComment
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Soldat de Fer,
Does that appear to be the back of real WWII German HBT posted by Sayle F in post #38? What say you?
RichardComment
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hello,
more ex,
same material on mint unworn pants.
external side with "www" hbt on the top of the pic,
and backside with more "horizontal lines" under :
and for comparizon, on a salty well worn one :
derkaComment
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Since Derka's post #49's new HBT front and back material is identical to Sayle F's photo, that means they both show original HBT. Since Sayle F's post shows the backside of the wrap in question's HBT, it also reasons that it is made of original HBT. Since it has been amongst collectors and one dealer for the last 10 or so years it could not possibly be a new made fake from the French faker. I rest my case.
Richard PLast edited by Richard P; 05-22-2008, 04:45 PM.Comment
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Hbt
Hello Richard.
I am still not clear as too why it has Totenkopf tabs we these not issued without tabs and boards? If it is unissued why the insignia? What do think about the location of the ink stamps and the saw tooth collar stiching?
Thanks
BrianComment
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hello,
Richard had this wrap in hands for close examination,
if things are as he described them about material,
at least it seems that hbt material it is made of looks like correct in comparizon with original hbt material used during ww2.
but as it has been said,
there are points wich are not those usualy encountered with this kind of item,
like for the colar stitching at reverse.
ex
and questions, as colar tabs are factory seewn or not ?
if possible, a wiew from end sleeves would be interesting.
so an "hybrid", a prototype ?
maybe, pic analysis possibilities are limited anyway comparing with hand inspection.
derkaComment
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I would say that this is a prototype first pattern wrapper. I have seen many, many US WWII prototypes and experimental garments. I cannot say the same with German WWII items. I would say this piece is exactly like it was when it left the factory or plant that produced it. I would say it was probably made in whatever time period the green backed, red piped TK tabs were produced. They have all appearances of being factory sewn. The boards are obviously produced at the same time as the wrap.
It may or may not have been issued. It was obviously never worn. Every person that stopped by and looked at it in person commented on what a great wrap it was, never seen one like it, etc. What I am familiar with is panzer wraps and I am aware of all the discussions about zig zag stitching on the backs of HBT wrap collars. If this is a very early HBT garment there is no reason not to zig zag stitch the back of the collar. This wrap is made with great quality and no one was in a hurry to complete it, which shown in the workmanship. Perhaps in production the stitch was done away with for expediency or some other reason. Maybe because the backside of the collar was pieced together (like many panzer wraps) they zig zag stitched the bias material inside to help it hold together better.
The truth is, after you hold it in your hands, you can make your own good or bad judgment call. No one will know for sure the story behind how this wrap came to be unless documentation and/or photographs come to light.
Brian,
There is a ton of photographs of TK tabs being worn on all sorts of garments including HBT. Please check out some of the great reference books by Bob Edwards. Here is a tiny sampling of photos posted by other forum members.Last edited by Richard P; 05-23-2008, 01:59 AM.Comment
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3. Notice no shouder boards or loops for them.Comment
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hbt
Hello Richard.
My point was why are they on an unissed HBT wrapper?
BrianComment
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hello,
first Richard, thanks for the pics.
"
and a few observations considering your hypothesis of " a prototype first pattern wrapper".
- as far i know, RB-Nr system didn't appear before the second half of the year 1942.
- what is known as "first pattern hbt wrapper", complete german designation "Drillichschutzanzug für die Besatzungen des Panzerspähwagen",
was adopted may 5, 1941.
so at this stage,
as there is a RN-Nr on the wrapper we discuss,
i would be more convinced, on this point particular point,
by an explaination about an hybrid or transitionnal version before adoption of the second patern hbt wrapper.
specialy with the double row of buttons to close it.
derkaLast edited by derka; 05-23-2008, 01:54 PM.Comment
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Thanks for posting the great photos Richard P.
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