Patina, what is it about this stuff ?

[ErichS]

Not being a dagger guy and only owning one SA dagger, I only cleaned off the green stuff near the leather hanger( forget what it's called) and put a nice coat of Renwax on it.

[saar]

heres the dagger for which i make no apologise
knot was on it when i got it so i assume put on pre 45
if the blade had been damaged when in use and swaped would that make it any more of a parts dagger then me swaping it in 2005??

Had this been done in let's say Apr 1945 then it would be a 'period repair'. In your case it is a heresy called 'parts dagger'.
If you don't tell anyone about the swap then it is a 'nice original untouched dagger'.

[nickn]

i think i have told everyone
damn
seriously does anyone think i have lowered the value of this dagger?
remember the original blade was rusted through

[saar]

seriously does anyone think i have lowered the value of this dagger?

I don't think so. If you replaced it with the blade of the same manufacturer and if it fits.

[Seiler]

Not being a dagger guy and only owning one SA dagger, I only cleaned off the green stuff near the leather hanger( forget what it's called) and put a nice coat of Renwax on it.

Try "Verdigris"Seiler

[nickn]

Same manufacturer same style of trade mark could have been on the bench together

[DR DOLCH]

I clean my blades with a hot water and sudsy ammonia solution that will remove all dirt, grime, old grease or cosmoline without damaging the blade or its burnishing. I leave the rest of the dagger alone except to remove verdigris on nickel fittings where it could cause pitting. IMO, there's nothing like a pristine blade having been protected by the scabbard with moderate to heavy patina on the rest of the dagger. Daggers with polished fittings never look right to me because the grip and scabbard usually show wear not commensurate with new looking fittings.

I agree they just do not look right with paint or anodized scabbard that are worn with bright shiny fittings. These are just my preferences. It is your dagger and I do not care if you drive nails with it.

[DR DOLCH]

Will give you that. That is an excellent point.

Now, that being said, are you also against active restoration which halts the continuing degradation of an item, as in active rust? Do you continue to let an item degrade. Do you let leather rot or do you put a preservative on that.

IF. If a dagger is cleaned CORRECTLY, you will never know it has been touched. IF. If the parts are replaced correctly, you will never know it has been touched.

It all goes back to doing it right.

And if you say you would always be able to tell if an item has been cleaned or messed with, you just might be kidding yourself. Just maybe....

I try not to buy daggers that need fixing or restoration that way I do not have to deal with it.

[heers68]

We are all adults and we are going to do what we want with our possessions! That said, here's the problem... "original" includes protective lacquers and finishes applied at the factory.. could they have been polished off during the period for the next inspection? sure.. BUT, Taking Heer daggers as my example.. look at the factory catalogs.. finish is described as "Alte Silber" old silver.. or silver with a patina! Sooo how much of the patina comes with age and how much was applied at the factory?? Hand clean it and you are sure to destroy the factory finish! (if any still remains!) Kevin.

[Craig H]

This has been debated many times over and the end result is always the same . Its a personal preference . Neither opinion is wrong . Personally , I wouldnt buy a dagger needing restoration or that had been recently cleaned and I love the look of a nice age patina (within reason) . Of course this is JMO .

[Manalishi]

i think i have told everyone
damn
seriously does anyone think i have lowered the value of this dagger?
remember the original blade was rusted through

Of course you've lowered the value. A dagger with a rusty, pitted blade is worth far more than a dagger with mint replacement blade by the same maker.

That's why premier auto auction companies like Barrett-Jackson and Mecum sell rusty beat-up Ferraris and Corvettes for top dollar. No-one wants a fully restored 'Cuda or AC Cobra unless you can see daylight through the floorboards.

[nickn]

So if I put the rusty blade ,it's very very rusty, back on the dagger the value will go up???
I don't think so
And if I sold it I bet any money within a very short time another nice blade will be substituted
And whereas a restored car is obvious unless I told no one could tell I had swapped the blade same as if it had been swapped pre 45
And a really rusty Ferrari will be restored at some point it will not be left to rot by an owner who has just paid a lot for it
Original unmessed with classic car fetch a premium but not rust buckets like my blade would be classed as if it were a car
The last 3 inches had all but disappeared

[nickn]

With the corroded blade refitted it's only worth the sum of the good parts you would not want to take the dagger out of its scabbard to display it
These dagger were mass produced they are not art
the designs might be artistic
I collect japanese swords , which are hand made pieces of art ,it would be a crime to let a good blade rust away restoration is the norm so I am a bit bias

[Bulldog]

Thanks very much for all the replies it was interesting to see the varied opinions, I think we will all have to agree that it is personal preference on how we want our items to look. The only thing I can add is for people, especially the patina lovers, to accept the individuals choice to have his collection looking the way he wants it to look, daggers with a lot of patina never get slagged off by collectors who prefer clean daggers but cleaned or even partially cleaned daggers often do, I think just a bit too much emphasise is put on patina. Thanks again guys this was very interesting reading.

[Bulldog]

Been having another read and would like to comment on what DR DOLCH has said about the patina attesting to a daggers originality, if a dagger was personally bought in the 60s or 70s with patina on it then yes it would be a good indication of originality but a lot of fakes were made in the 60s 70s and 80s which have since had time to acquire their own patina so I don't think this thinking can apply today. Patina could also mask poor parts, casting flaws, detail, plating etc. HEERS68 made a good point about factory finish but covered in patina you will never see or know if the finish is there. MANALISHI you say NICKN lowered the value of his dagger by replacing the blade with a mint one, daggers being sold by dealers that are described as minty and by the way are normally quite clean go for a higher price. Thanks again for your replies.