Patina, what is it about this stuff ?

[David Fettes]

In a lot of cases patina is just 50 plus years of old cigarette smoke, get it off!

[Bulldog]

That's another good point David, I used to work in a bar and it didn't take long before we had to wash all the nicotine off the fixtures and fittings.

[nickn]

I agree horrible stuff but some collectors like it
I once bought an 86 Winchester off the wall of a small bar in California the outward facing side was covered in nicotine hell of a job getting it off but I ended up with a two tone rifle as the nicotine had preserved the side it was on and the other had lightly rusted

[BrianK]

I don't understand why collectors pay extra for patina. Coin collectors pay extra for "rainbow color", esp. on silver coins. Little do they know that eventually the "rainbow" will turn black through oxidation, making the coins worth less.

[Skyline Drive]

I don't understand why collectors pay extra for patina. Coin collectors pay extra for "rainbow color", esp. on silver coins. Little do they know that eventually the "rainbow" will turn black through oxidation, making the coins worth less.

Well... I perhaps know more about coin patina than most posters here, and I can say that your statement shows that you do not understand either the experienced coin collector or the experienced dagger collector for that matter. As for silver coins, in particular Morgan dollars, the 'patina' you are referring to was for the most part caused by sulfur compounds in the cloth bags issued by the US mint which contained the silver dollars. The colors appearing on the coin are a result of exposure to the cloth bag. They will change over time and eventually will turn black if left in the bag. However, those dollars (most if not all) which have been removed from the bag and in collections and which have rainbow coloring will not degrade further and will keep their color indefinitely.

As for daggers I simply submit that if you like things unnaturally polished up like grandma's silver then great for you. Most long time collectors that I know don't, and won't purchase a piece that has rubbed to death like a thirteen year old boy's new found "special purpose" (to paraphrase Steve Martin)...

[Mac 66]

I prefer Patina on my daggers, Why ?, because most of the time uncleaned daggers have not been pulled apart !

[BrianK]

Skyline Drive

Stick to daggers. There are still elements in the air that will turn coins black, even in PCGS and NGC holders. And no, I would not believe what a dealer tells me about "patina" on a dagger he is about to sell. They practice "rubbing for special purpose". Esp. ones from NJ.

[geefal]

You know, the thing I had hoped to be different with this forum would be that I had hoped this would be an arena of thought shared and discussed by gentlemen. Most forums usually have one crass boor who decides that his way is the only way and it is not simply good enough to disagree with someone, no, he must deride them or perhaps coach his opinion in veiled personal insults. Have always believed the best forums are ones where people treat and speak to one another like you would do face to face.

There always has to be one though doesn't there.

Most long time collectors that I know don't, and won't purchase a piece that has rubbed to death like a thirteen year old boy's new found "special purpose" (to paraphrase Steve Martin)...

Shame really people have to lower themselves to crap like this. But I guess it makes them feel better about their own position to make comments that in their mind makes them feel like a big man to be able to be making fun of others. Mom always taught me as a youngster that when you make fun of others, well, you make yourself look even worse.

Shame really how one person can give a bad image to a whole place. Perhaps we can keep these kind of borderline insulting comments at a minimum hmmm?

[Mac 66]

geefal,


You gotta be ready for these WAF bitches !!

had my fair share of the know alls & trolls


Lots of Good Guys on here as well , thats just the world these days on the net imo.

[Ed Sunday]

You know, the thing I had hoped to be different with this forum would be that I had hoped this would be an arena of thought shared and discussed by gentlemen. Most forums usually have one crass boor who decides that his way is the only way and it is not simply good enough to disagree with someone, no, he must deride them or perhaps coach his opinion in veiled personal insults. Have always believed the best forums are ones where people treat and speak to one another like you would do face to face.

There always has to be one though doesn't there.



Shame really people have to lower themselves to crap like this. But I guess it makes them feel better about their own position to make comments that in their mind makes them feel like a big man to be able to be making fun of others. Mom always taught me as a youngster that when you make fun of others, well, you make yourself look even worse.

Shame really how one person can give a bad image to a whole place. Perhaps we can keep these kind of borderline insulting comments at a minimum hmmm?

I don't believe Skyline was out of line at all ! He's right on about coins as my father was a big time coin dealer and he will say the same about natural patina.
As far as patina to daggers it's always been a personal preference..........leave it on or remove it.

[Frogprince]

................................. As for daggers I simply submit that if you like things unnaturally polished up like grandma's silver then great for you. Most long time collectors that I know don't, and won't purchase a piece that has rubbed to death like a thirteen year old boy's new found "special purpose" (to paraphrase Steve Martin)...

I also did not see his statement as offensive, and thought that it injected a little humor into the discussion. FP

[Wim Vangossum]

Most important is the question of a dagger can be cleaned in a safe way. I have no problem with a cleaned early SA dagger with solid fittings. Some like them with tons of patina and nicotine layers, others prefer them shining bright like the day that they were used on parade in the early 30's.
A heavy patinated dagger gives the safe feeling that everything is untouched since many decades but it is not a must in my opinion. A cleaned SA dagger looks like it was when the original owner wear it. Cleaning an early SA dagger is not dangerous for the fittings.

But if you try to clean the fittings of an Army or a 2nd model luftwaffe dagger, you probably hurt the original finish with the artifical blackning that was often used to give a more eye appealing look to the fittings. So if I see a heavy cleaned army or luftwaffe, I feel very sad.


Regards, Wim

[Nolan]

If I buy something I want it to look like it was when the original owner owned it, I'm not really interested in the 70+ years of s**t and abuse on it, that came after the period I'm interested in. What are the 'do not touch it brigade' collecting, 70 years of crud or the thing under it.

Funny how the same 'don't clean it' bunch still manage to drool over Manfreds collection

[BrianK]

Anybody who thinks "rainbow patina" will stay on coins forever and not change is will believe that "dagger patina" can't be altered by dealers.

[Ed Sunday]

Anybody who thinks "rainbow patina" will stay on coins forever and not change is will believe that "dagger patina" can't be altered by dealers.

What the heck is it wtih you and dealers ?