Patina, what is it about this stuff ?

[Tiger 1]

i dont really understand your point
are you saying the original owners didnt clean or polish their daggers??
and that all polishing is post 45 and only done by collectors??

See post #52.

[nickn]

I wasn't familiar with that technique.
Then again my toilets aren't big enough for all my daggers.

Tony

the japanese used to hang copper and bronze items from the rafters of horse and cattle sheds to get a nice patina
lots of ammonia

[nickn]

See post #52.

so daggers blades with cross graining have not been polished?
opps
i polished the hell out of this blade it was dirty with spider rust and shallow finger print staining
hard to see in my bad photo but it has most of its original cross graining
fittings were just cleaned with a soft cloth no polishing agents involved i promise

[BrianK]

Cleaning coins is called "Whizzing". So know we know a cheap way of getting that "sudsy ammonia" Tom Wittmann and others are always talking about....

[nickn]

cleaning coins of dirt is fine polishing them is not
i bought the pennies for £1 and in their polished state that was all they were worth now i think they are starting to look quite presentable

[Tiger 1]

Polishing and cleaning are two different procedures.

About coins...I wouldn't recommend polishing or cleaning any collectable coin. Especially any of the mint state grades.

As for daggers...whatever floats your boat. Your money, your toys.

Tony out.

[nickn]

Cleaning coins of dirt is fine polishing them is not
How can you take from this statement that I don't know cleaning and polishing are two different procedures ?
Verdigris and dirt can harm copper and silver coins and needs to be addressed
I don't polish dagger fittings that's my preference but I can understand why some collectors do
These are mass produced items not fine art or antiques I think we can get a bit silly about this issue

[ErichS]

Cleaning coins of dirt is fine polishing them is not
How can you take from this statement that I don't know cleaning and polishing are two different procedures ?
Verdigris and dirt can harm copper and silver coins and needs to be addressed
I don't polish dagger fittings that's my preference but I can understand why some collectors do
These are mass produced items not fine art or antiques I think we can get a bit silly about this issue

Ah but many are priced like fine works of art.

[Skyline Drive]

Cleaning coins is called "Whizzing". So know we know a cheap way of getting that "sudsy ammonia" Tom Wittmann and others are always talking about....

Cleaning coins (or dagger blades) with a wire brush is called "whizzing". Typically, cleaned coins have been dipped in a solution, not whizzed. Whizzing has absolutely nothing to do with sudsy ammonia. Sudsy ammonia does not add artificial patina the way you have implied that Tom Wittmann uses it. Sudsy ammonia is a cleaning product that will clean dirt, grime and old grease or cosmoline off of a blade without damaging the surface of the blade or the burnishing. It won't even harm the extra blackening that was applied by a handful of makers to SA daggers. Sudsy ammonia does not alter the original surface of a blade, it only cleans it.

Since I only collect early SA and SS daggers, to me, "patina" only applies to the solid nickel dagger and scabbard fittings, which I leave alone. Because the blades are made of carbon steel, they do not acquire a patina the way the fittings do. What they do acquire is dirt, grime and other crud which can be removed, which I do.

[BrianK]

I don't know where TW gets his sudsy ammonia from. Apparently not from the same source they use in England. But it's interesting that he does things to improve his daggers' appearance. So it's hard to find a dagger that's been untouched since 1945, after everyone gets through with them. It's a good thing TR daggers don't get certs concerning their surfaces like coins. One might read some interesting things.

[Ed Sunday]

I 've seen sudsy ammonia in many stores that sell hosehold cleaning supplies...........nothing rare or unusual about it.

[nickn]

It's the ammonia gas ,and I guess other things , that helps patinate items left hanging in a dunny not liquid ammonia which is a cleaning agent

[nickn]

Sulphides ???

[BrianK]

"Original Patina"

It doesn't matter what's used. Renwax, sudsy ammonia or bear grease. The point is - whether the dagger is described as "mint" or not - the surface has been altered over the past 75 or 80 years. By a soldier who's wiped it clean in the field. By a collector who's polished it. By a dealer who's made it more saleable for display. Or even by changes in humidity, or temperature where it's stored. Or by it being stored by something acidic or corrosive. Or owned by a smoker. "Original surfaces" do not exist. They are either a fantasy of the collector, or a sales pitch of a seller.

[Schlange]

Each dagger has its original layer, if he is not cleaned.
Final layer can be changed over the years, but if he was cleaned, there is no more return.


Schlange

http://www.mojalbum.com/schlange88/albumi