Patina, what is it about this stuff ?

[Serge M.]

What the heck is it wtih you and dealers ?

Sounds like he don't care for 'them'.
But, if so, then who qualifies as 'them' ?

[nickn]

If I buy something I want it to look like it was when the original owner owned it, I'm not really interested in the 70+ years of s**t and abuse on it, that came after the period I'm interested in. What are the 'do not touch it brigade' collecting, 70 years of crud or the thing under it.

Funny how the same 'don't clean it' bunch still manage to drool over Manfreds collection

Good point

[BrianK]

Any schoolboy who took Chemistry knows that silver will react with air and tarnish. I've had slabbed coins - in temperature and humidity controlled environments, change from red to purple toning in a matter of months. So "toning" can be added or removed from daggers. If collectors pay more for a certain kind of patina - the seller can change it. Just saying - know what you are paying for when buying "patina". In coins or daggers. I wouldn't be surprised if certain parties sat in their basements and blew cigar smoke at blades to give them that certain look.

[nickn]

I leave anything I what toned down from coins to Japanese sword fittings to daggers on the back of the toilet the ammonia does a good job
But you need boys girls don't splash !!!

[Schlange]

Any schoolboy who took Chemistry knows that silver will react with air and tarnish. I've had slabbed coins - in temperature and humidity controlled environments, change from red to purple toning in a matter of months. So "toning" can be added or removed from daggers. If collectors pay more for a certain kind of patina - the seller can change it. Just saying - know what you are paying for when buying "patina". In coins or daggers. I wouldn't be surprised if certain parties sat in their basements and blew cigar smoke at blades to give them that certain look.

Because that is necessary to pay attention to of certain parts of the dagger.
Cleaned parts dagger lose sharpness on the corners.
(One of the reasons whay dagger shold not be cleaned.)


Schlange

http://www.mojalbum.com/schlange88/albumi

[nickn]

Schlange
These daggers were all kept clean and polished when in use so any wear might have occurred pre 45
So any patina on metal parts is post 45 Once they stoped being worn as dress daggers

[Tiger 1]

Schlange
These daggers were all kept clean and polished when in use so any wear might have occurred pre 45
So any patina on metal parts is post 45 Once they stoped being worn as dress daggers

Not really. The fact that many daggers exhibit full cross grain and factory applied darkening disprove your statement that all daggers were polished by their owners.

[Tiger 1]

Some things to keep in mind as collectors and CARETAKERS of historical items for those that come after us.

As collectors we are dealing with 'HISTORICAL ANTIQUES'. They are not items of everyday military wear and use today that need to be kept spic and span for parade duty.

As antiques these items will wear their age and history as patina. Please do not confuse patina with dirt or grime, they are not the same. Very often a simple, careful dry brushing with a soft brush wonders for getting dirt and grime off. At most a gentle washing with a mild, ph neutral soap followed by a thouough rinse and drying is all that is needed. This will not in most cases damage the original finish and existing patina unless you're really scrubbing hard.

There are also those collectors that 'venerate' the objects we collect as something akin to being sacred. The drive to keep them in some perceived immaculate condition often does irreparable damage to what original condition may have been there. A case of good intentions but bad execution.

Original condition is like virginity. Once it's gone it's gone. Forever.

Sure a polished up or heavily cleaned collectable may tarnish up again but they will never again be in original condition.

An item chemically cleaned will not have the same pleasing tone when it tarnishes as an original untouched one. Chemical agents often used to clean molecularly strip certain elements like copper from alloys used in construction. An important point to students of history and historical items to keep in mind. The often recommended sudsy ammonia is devistating long term on copper based items such as brass. If in doubt about the effects of any ammonia based cleaning agent on copper or brass based metals just look what has been traditionally used to REMOVE copper fouling from gun barrels. Even old military manuals cautioned against using ammonia based cleaners on brass cases and equipment because it degrades the structural integrity of brass based metals. Enough said for the clear thinking man.

Again we must ask ourselves...How will future generations of collectors know what an original finish looks like if some collectors keep polishing away ?

Always keep in mind that damage once done cannot be undone. We owe that to the collectors that will follow in our footsteps.

Then again...to each his own.

All the best.

Tony

[nickn]

"all kept clean and polished "
can you image the original owners going on parade with a dirty dagger?
these men had pride in their daggers
do you think he might have been put on a charge?

[nickn]

i dont polish my dagger fittings i just clean off any dirt as tiger says with a soft cloth i do polish the blade lightly to make sure there are not finger prints which quickly turn to rush
some heer and lufts i have no idea when they were last polished or who by
the original owner or the vet who brought them back i dont really care

[Tiger 1]

"all kept clean and polished "
can you image the original owners going on parade with a dirty dagger?
these men had pride in their daggers
do you think he might have been put on a charge?

Funny how we never see 'original' polishing compound residue in the nooks or krannies on vet acquired daggers.

Hmmmm....

Tony

[nickn]

these victorian penny`s had been polished bright a desgrease and a year on the back of the toilet ,i have two boys, and the patina is nearly back to what it was

[Tiger 1]

Nickn....

Nice looking daggers, patina and all.

[nickn]

Funny how we never see 'original' polishing compound residue in the nooks or krannies on vet acquired daggers.

Hmmmm....

Tony

i dont really understand your point
are you saying the original owners didnt clean or polish their daggers??
and that all polishing is post 45 and only done by collectors??

[Tiger 1]

these victorian penny`s had been polished bright a desgrease and a year on the back of the toilet ,i have two boys, and the patina is nearly back to what it was

I wasn't familiar with that technique.
Then again my toilets aren't big enough for all my daggers.

Tony