SS High Leader Prototype Dagger - Anyone Ever Encountered One Before? Oldtimers?

[Frogprince]

Barry, here is the photo of the Atwood dagger from amongst the 14 pages of photos in another German edition. The one I looked at in a local libary was the one I mentioned above. This one I just bought through the online book dealer is a licensed printing for Magnus Verlag by Verlagsgruppe Bertelsmann GmbH.

Joe, Thank you for bringing us up to speed with what has happened. While I think that it’s fairly well known that Germany is and has been flooded with fakes for years. Now we have confirmation of a serious contamination of German resource material by a known faker and his like minded associate(s) from the 1960’s. Could this get even more disgusting?? FP

[Barry Brown]

Joe

Thanks for showing the pictures in a German edition of Hoehne's book. The Himmler visit to Quedlingburg, his pilgrimage to Henry the Fowlers tomb, is in my English edition. But, someone getting one of Atwood's dubious blades placed next to the Himmler picture, in that particular German edition you have located, somewhat mars Hoehne's otherwise scholarly work.

Barry

[JoeW]

You know Barry, often the editor or perhaps publisher is at fault for adding/padding a work with photographs of their choice without input from the author. That happened when I wrote the chapter on police blades in TMJ Vol IV.

[Barry Brown]

Joe, I absolutely agree with you . It can also happen that the choice of translator and checking of translations for accuracy is out of the author's hands which omission can and does lead to serious error, so I can understand why you attach importance to working with original German texts.
I would very much like to know which pictures in your chapter on police edged weapons in Johnson lV were not of your choice for inclusion.

[JoeW]

Barry, every photograph without my name on it was added by Tom to the draft with photos I submitted for publication. My photos were not of the highest quality and a couple that he added helped, like the comparison of police service bayonets. But some were of no value and actually detrimental;ie. the dress bayonet with a rank pip on the grip. Tom was paying for the publishing, so he was entitled to add what he wanted. I only wish he had been more selective.

[cogwheel]

Well, I was so 'impressed' with all that chat about this dagger's notoriously fraudulent origin that I decided to acquire one. Hey folks, its a great looking dagger and I have to report that I'm happy having been defraudulated. Happy New Year.

[Serge M.]

It's quite stunning in person, other than being out of balance (top heavy), it has a good feel and the blade moves in and out of the scabbard like it should.

Out of balance: You hold the dagger with your fingers lightly around the top scabbard ring, If the hilt should fall forward it is 'out of balance'. Meaning that it would never hang correctly when worn and is the basic test used by 'Old Hands' with unusual daggers.


-wagner-

[Colorado]

This thread never dies away

Exactly Serge the "old-timer" test.

Hold by the ring and see if it's at a 45 degree angle. It's been a few years, but the one that started the thread fell flat it was so top heavy.

[james m]

This repro dagger hangs perfectly when held by the ring.
Jim

[cogwheel]

I don't know about the others that reside in collections, but mine is perfectly balanced.
The blade is maidenhair damascus and shows the SS motto in golden letters. I'll post some pictures when I get back this afternoon.

[cogwheel]

Here are the pics

[cogwheel]

Pommel and blade

[cogwheel]

balance

[JoeW]

Well, I was so 'impressed' with all that chat about this dagger's notoriously fraudulent origin that I decided to acquire one. Hey folks, its a great looking dagger and I have to report that I'm happy having been defraudulated. Happy New Year.

So did you buy your friend's example with the case or did you score another post-war example? I don't know what is worse, the fraudulent origin or the notoriously fraudulent attempt over the past decades to legitimize the piece. I always thought the design vulgar, with its garish eagle cross-guard out of proportion to the dagger and looking more like a vulture, the bulbous pommel cap seeming to have been fashioned on the design of the LW dagger, the dumpy design of the grip and of course the weird scabbard. Somehow it reminds me of the scabbard of another dagger. Was it the Latvian dagger/letter opener? No that is a similar configuration but different design. But it is all personal tastes. Different strokes for different folks.

I wish you a Happy New Year with your new acquisition.

[cogwheel]

JoeW: Many thanks for your New Year wishes, I sincerely wish you the same.
'Different strokes for different folks' , well, that says it all. It reminds me of a posting where the guy stated that the best looking TR dagger ever made was, in his opinion, the RLB Leader. To me that one is probably the ugliest edged weapon ever generated in the TR. This goes to show that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I wouldn't dream of giving anyone an argument on that issue.

As far as the Paul Mueller SS prototype goes, the fact is that the dagger is shown in almost every text book on TR daggers, and as such, a noteworthy collectible that I always liked to have. If the dagger is period or postwar is, for all I can tell, philosophical and based on what you want to believe. In that regard I would say I'm an agnostic. On the other hand the ongoing criticism and doubts voiced about its authenticity have played out in my favor - I didn't pay out the ridiculously high sums of money asked for these daggers by some of the dealers in the past.

One thing is for certain, the dagger was designed and made by Paul Mueller who is not just some unkown 'Fritz vom Lande' but a well known TR damascus smith of the TR. Thus, if the dagger was made before or after 45 by Paul Mueller is of no issue to me.


Ich bin der Fritz vom Lande
der nie ein Auto kannte
doch wenn es Schweine sind
mein liebes Kind
weiss ich genau.

Das Schreiben und das Lesen
sind nie mein Fach gewesen
Jedoch bei uns zuhaus' im Stall
da kenn ich jede Sau.