The Hermann Goering Visor

[mjfur]

pic1

[robertdmountfor]

How is the wreath/cockade attached to the cap?

It strikes me odd that the backing material isn't cut more precisely around the insignia. Kind of off kilter or un-even if you will. Your typical Luft. Officer visor seems to be more precise.???

Of all the original pictures posted, none appear to show backing material to the wreath/cockade.

Just an observation. What the hell do I know?

Regards,
Mike

No backing material known....??? many contemporary and period pictures show exactly this style of cap, with backing on both eagle and wreath.

[Leroy]

For informational purposes, both the eagle and wreath are sewn on with very small stitches which do not emerge to the front of the cloth itself. In other words, you cannot see any sewing work from the front at all. All sewing is done from the rear of the eagle and wreath back into the body of the cap. I have no idea how the tailor did this, but it is impressive to see.
Leroy

[mjfur]

No backing material known....??? many contemporary and period pictures show exactly this style of cap, with backing on both eagle and wreath.

Please post a pic of the many.

[robertdmountfor]

Please post a pic of the many.

You mean you havent seen them? You actually need a picture to be posted?

[Federico Perez]

Pic

LOOK at this "negative" photo(train station closeup) and compare it with the othes you did of the other hats and you will see the detail definition around the wreath/cockade insignia is NOT the same, in this photo(train) as I stated before the bullion oakleaves and "wings" look "fatter" and with less border definition, I belive this is couse by the backing material. Look at the closeup of this picture, at the top of the cockade exactly below the eagle, it looks like it touch the upper gold piping on the hat band, again the wreath/cockade desing don't do this in reality but the backing material, which DO touch the upper gold piping of the hat band.

Also in the "negative" photo of the modern 35mm photo of the hat, is a closeup...VERY close, and even there the definition of the backing material is not as dark as the other insignias in the comparison photos. Now imagine that exersise at a distance with same lighting conditions as the original train station photo.

Federico

[Federico Perez]

Please tell me about the hermann goering visor cap and unifrom confiscated by the dept of justice????? Billbert

They where confiscated in Laguna Beach Ca. in november 1999 and this and other Goering artifacts including one of his ceremonial swords, where displayed at the Federal Building in Los Angeles, part of a press conference about the case.

This form part of a militaria collection that was made with "dirty" money, and this was accepted by the owner of the items so the Federal Gov. confiscated all of it. Theres other photos of the items, like a silver frame H.G. presentation photo,cased oakleaves and the ceremonial sword.

Federico

[billbert]

Thanks Fredrico!!!Billbert

[John Pic]

Federico I agree with your assement of the photos.

[Leroy]

Just another to see. July, 1941.

[LDR]

Old Goering certainly had a sweaty noggin, looking at the inside of that hat.

Here are some more pics of Goering in his visors:

[Bill D.]

You know, I think that this has to be just about the most absurd discussion that I have ever seen in the nearly 8 years that I have been on this forum.

And that, my friends, is saying something.

There is a saying that people in this hobby throw around: "Buy the piece, not the story."

I personally think that is complete B.S. In any museum, for every artifact, they have a document on "provenance". Who owned this item? Where did it come from? What is its history? These things are indespensible in evaluating any object. Does that mean that you just automatically accept whatever anyone at a show tells you about an object?
No.
But it does mean that it is something to be considered as important.

Here the provenance on this cap is absolute, impeccable, airtight.

And all of this nonsense about stitching and conformance of the sweatband is just that: nonsense. This cap has established lineage to the veteran who brought it home, and some people are sitting at their monitors, looking at digital photos of a 70 year old cap (photos that have been taken at different times, under varied lighting conditions) and trying to compare them to 70 year old photos that are in most cases grainy and out of focus.

And all of this started because one individual decided to cry "Wolf !", and I think that Leroy pinpointed quite accurately the reason for that.

I have another saying for you all, to go hand in hand with "Buy the piece, not the story." The saying is this:

"Consider the source".

That means: When you are evaluating a piece, consider the source of the item.

And it also means that if an item is criticized, consider the source of the criticism.

[NTZ]

Here the provenance on this cap is absolute, impeccable, airtight.

And all of this nonsense about stitching and conformance of the sweatband is just that: nonsense. This cap has established lineage to the veteran who brought it home

I have made no comments one way or another towards it originality so I consider this comment impartial.

Please tell us this “Vet” story. I was chit chatting with the owner a few days ago about the cap as I was interested in whom Russ Hamilton was. He told me how Russ came about the cap but there was no mention of a WWII vet. Can you elaborate please? Who is/was this vet?

[Leroy]

The vet was a member of the 506th P.I.R., 101st Airborne, who answered an ad Russ Hamilton ran in Atlanta. He took the cap, and some other items, from Goering's train at the train station at "The Eagle's Nest". The train was the source of many of the Goering items now in collections.

It's my understanding that Russ may elect to post in this thread, so I will defer to him to tell the full story.

Best,
Leroy

[NTZ]

The vet was a member of the 506th P.I.R., 101st Airborne, who answered an ad Russ Hamilton ran in Atlanta. He took the cap, and some other items, from Goering's train at the train station at "The Eagle's Nest". The train was the source of many of the Goering items now in collections.

It's my understanding that Russ may elect to post in this thread, so I will defer to him to tell the full story.

Best,
Leroy

I this the same cap that the vet got drunk and used as a pillow? I heard that story once.