Sweatband "reed" material in SS visor

[SgtB]

1. Since the gray board only has a set of holes for that skull.Ill post pics of a cap with matching insignias and Ill ask a friend who is in the middle of a deal on another contract type cap made the same way to post the matching Zimmermans on his.

Meaningless, as most skulls, good and bad fit through the same holes.And as I said badges can be exchanged at any time, by anyone, for any reason. And it certainly wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination to think high-end fakers (undoubtedly many of whom are the SS gurus you worship) would put matching badges on a cap because it would appear more convincing to a novice. This is actually taking the process one step too far, as they shouldn't match, in my experience, and thus the ruse backfires.

2.There is no real amount of fuzzy nap on the piping it for the most part has worn off and thread bare with some areas of moth bites.Some fuzz remains under the flaps etc.
.

There is plenty of long, pendulous knap on that piping, look along the top of the band right there in front.

3. The velvet is X-weave anyone else seen that in SS visors?If it is seen in orignals then no need to worry since most good fakes are made from original parts..

Yes, but listen to yourself, "most good fakes are from original parts."

4.The chincord fits perfectly a bit tight but perfect. Id expect tightness from a fat one anyway..

That chincord fits like $hit. It's mounted off-center and the knots on each side are different distances apart. And they shouldn't be apart at all. Do you really believe a skilled cap-maker couldn't do a better job than that? I know I could and you might even be able to as well, and we don't do it for a living.

5.There are scratch marks but if you look at it in hand it is not these scratches that caused the wear down of the rust color in areas on the visor and if you look inder a loop the rust color is only worn off of raised areas,consistant with normal wear for any "stipled" thing..

Or by a skilled faker as he's rubbing it with a mild abrasive.

6.That type of sweat band is found in all SS contract caps I have seen so that too is a non issue.There are two small pin holes where thread was at the back once but if anything was there its gone..

See answer 3 above. But it still looks odd to me.

7. huh? I posted two other caps with the same type stitching and both are unquestionable ...for most anyway..

For most anyway.

8. Bruce Herman is selling a visor that was veteran obtained and has these same type initial tabs in them. I know who obtained the cap so Im sure its not just a story.

No comment necessary, as many good caps have these tabs.

9. . . .the majority of collectors are like overgrown kids . . . .

We agree 100% here. But that's part of the fun of it. As long as it doesn't get nasty.

. . .The material is coated and thus exhibits a different degree of wear but to be honest I think this is an old infrequently used piece . . . .

But then your completely missing the point that the sweatshield, badges, etc. exhibit years of wear but the reedless reed material exhibits zero, zip, zed. And niether does it's stitching. And if anything it should show more wear because it is constantly in closer contact to skin, hair, and sweat whenever the cap is in wear, and sliding up and down and so forth.

10.Sweat shields can be so thin and brittle and in my experience rather than bothering with it some collector(before the 80s its gotta be perfect generation) or owner removed what was left for whatever reason who knows, most fakes try to maintain a logo for effect after searching this forum and in owning a few of the higher end fake SS caps, this is highly apparent. Logos are in for fakers..

There's truth in what you say, but more often than not, high-end fakers will remove bogus or questionable logos and shields, etc. as a fail-safe.
"Dead men tell no tales" as it were. Remember, high-end fakes aren't sold for a couple o'quid down at the local dog and pony show. They circle around up in the heavens, exchanging hands for ever increasing sums, until finally somebody starts to scratch his noodle and wises up.

. . .this is just a face saving attempt because God forbid we wouldnt want people to think we dont know everything . . ..

That's really unfair and rather hurtful! For crying-out-loud! You asked for a list of the negatives and I gave you one. And everything on it is an honest and accurate point IMHO. I have never claimed to be an expert in TR in general or SS in particular, but any layman off the street reading this should be able to ascertain that I have at least some ( ) idea what I'm talking about. And when it comes to the big SS-Guys, many have proven to be False Gods again and again. And many of them who are today's saints were yesterday's sinners, importing and introducing (if not actually manufacturing) much of the high-end junk into the market for the past several decades. I'm not naming names, but I've heard some disgusting, eyepopping stories over the years. And I've seen it for myself as well.
So excuse me if I don't kiss the feet of your 'friends'.

And even the true experts make mistakes all the time. I believe Bob Hritz is as honest and knowledgeable as any SS guy out there, but look at that black officer's schiffen with the bullion eagle and button that he went ga-ga over a few weeks ago. I don't think you could possibly convince me that it is a good one.

...I would appreciate seeing any SS caps you own... .

Tell you what, after I renew my membership, I will post a cap that might prove controversial, and you can have first crack at tearing it up. And I won't even get PO'd.

. . .SS caps should all have thin cords...

Even a cursory o'erglance of a few fuzzy period pics would lay that one to rest.

[TonyS]

Brian (or Brain as Nick called you in a few posts - I guess by error )

Those really are "clutching at straw points". Matching insignia is not right? Chincords don't fit? Sweatband fastner at the rear missing? etc etc

This part was pretty funny though "I don't like that beading. The hell with the rest of you! It just looks wrong." ha ha ha

Your intention may have been good, but for me, it fell on it's face and was a waste of time for you to type and for John to refute.

It did not diminish the value of the cap for me though. If you think that's expensive try looking at the prices that Bill Shea and Gerard Stezelberger charge for SS officers visors..........

[NTZ]

Just so you guys can see a fake aged Janke SB here is one.

[TonyS]

Hasn't everyone realized by now you don't need a membership here to post photos?? Try the Photobucket or Imageshack free photo hosting services.

[SgtB]

Again, John, there is a lot of truth in what you say. But most of the true collectors that I respect prefer relative anonymity to the spotlight, and avoid large militaria shows like the plague. Take George Marinos in G-burg, for instance. He has one of the finest collections I have ever seen. And what you see there is a fraction of a fraction of what's passed through his hands. Yes, he can be a cranky old Greek, and yes he has made mistakes and has been ripped-off, but he has forgotten more than most of us will ever know. He showed me a bevo cap skull that his uncle sent home to him in 1944! If I remember correctly, it was in the original envelope.

And the reason the general's cap on the other thread is receiving bad grades is because it doesn't look like any known general's cap. What more do you want? I don't like it either, but I stayed out of it because I've never had a general's schiffen. I've fondled a couple that I thought were good, but that's not the same thing. It's just opinions being offered, and at the end of the day it really doesn't amount to much anyway. Certainly no reason to go ape-$hit.

I will make this statement about no one in particular and it includes myself.
People in this hobby all the years I have been in it know how much being a recognized figure in the circles at the shows and now on the internet is an enjoyed place.

Its nice to have groups of people turn to you for advice and knowledge,especially if youve never written a book or contributed to one.To gain that prestige seems to be all the more important here on the internet forums..more so than learning true facts and sharing historical knowledge and history. Some guy who is know in his or her small circles back east or in the mid west or in California starts posting and his followers chime in and more novices become convinced whats said is gospel and start posting everything for an "is it good" festival of appraisal. I dont get these guys with alot of years that suddenly post something and ask for an opinion from guys they never ever met..nor do they know what these guys really know or dont know. Look at the Panzer General sidecap thread...a cap owned by a foremost expert authenticated by another is posted here and taken down to being a fake in minutes by two knowledgeable collectors who have handled some great stuff but do they really know what a real Panzer Generals cap looks like have either handled one? One states he has seen more than a few..where? I sure as heck havent seen alot of Panzer Generals caps?Im not cuting on Glenn he is a great collector with alot of knowledge and a super vast collection..but he has earned a rep as an expert and with that should come alot of caution at how things are worded. I think we all enjoy the status too much and the items not enough,just my opinion and another Jpic rant is on the books and please dont add a "lets stick to the cap in question" because in question here is the credentials of any of us to make expert opinion on anything without proof we have handled more than a few of the real deal.

[John Pic]

Brian along the top is where it is almost completely thread bare you're blind. Tony is correct your grasping at straws and using your spin to make it sound credible, but I see why, as youve commented on a few lately..your establishing yourself as a new expert.
Also what SS "Gurus" do you speak of, Ive been with Kevin since we both started building collections we are friends he isnt my mentor. He didnt have a single SS visor when we met now he has owned at least 9 that I can think of all bought and sold without problems and to high end collectors/dealers. If you knew him you would see he is no fool and lucky enough to invest in the best. Am I a Guru,since I often give advice on tunics and sleeve eagles ? Who else is a SS Guru I mentioned?

NTZ any sand paper finger wear under that visor?

Regarding the "reed" material it is as lightly worn as the rest of the leather and the wear matches all around the only thing on this cap that got real old was the old stitcing became very brittle for some reason and broke.More modern thread wouldnt do that unless it was pissed on and this one wasnt. Different guage thread attaches the reed to cap and cap to visor..not unusual at all if anyone has tailoring skills they would know this.

Im not saying you cant have an opinion but your awful adamant at making it known. Some are just satisfied with a simple I dont like it but you keep grinding away. You seem to feel confidant that I never met any high end collectors that dont show thier collections..youre assuming wrong.Some have even sent me emails laughing at your assesment of my cap.

Talking about old SS gurus throwing stuff together I know a few myself whose names get used like a Platinum Visa...and they have fooled many.Did you happen to see the Panzer Wrapper thread?

Aside from that..what "known" Generals Panzer caps have you seen?

[SgtB]

Brian (or Brain as Nick called you in a few posts - I guess by error ) .

Actually that's been one of my knicknames, by very close and dear loved ones, since I was a kid. So if it was meant as some lazy, disenterested form of disrespect, it really back-fired.

Those really are "clutching at straw points". Matching insignia is not right? Chincords don't fit? Sweatband fastner at the rear missing? etc etc
.

But all on one little old cap??? Geez, you have no standards at all.

This part was pretty funny though "I don't like that beading. The hell with the rest of you! It just looks wrong." ha ha ha .

I'm glad you got it, Tony! I do have quite a wit.

It did not diminish the value of the cap for me though. If you think that's expensive try looking at the prices that Bill Shea and Gerard Stezelberger charge for SS officers visors..........

Without even knowing it you made my case. You have obviously never learned Rule No. 1 in Militaria Collecting. Beware of Strangers Bearing Gifts.
Rare items at bargain basement prices on the open market ?!?!? If you can get 11K for a piece, why on earth would you settle for 8? Because you want the new owner to reap the profits? C'mon! Now who's the gullible newbie!

[BenVK]

Why don't you two have your private war in private?!

[TonyS]

I better get this in "Before the Lock....."

Brian I can see Glenn quickly locking this thread with you calling me names. Thread has probably run out of steam anyway.

But I don't think you get it. Try to sell something at a top end dealer price on the estand and see how long it sits there. Collector to collector sales often go a lot less than dealer prices. But here's an exception for a dealer - look at the SS officers visor on the Collectors Guild - sold at a bargain price, but then you probably don't like it either.

[NTZ]

Brian I meant no disrespect with the Brain thing. It was a mis spell. I have one question for you. How many SS Kleiderkasse visors have you seen over the years? The reason I ask is most share the exact same traits as Johns. They generally don’t have shields. Not because of some unscrupulous person but because they tend to use thin cello more so than the standard. This stuff just breaks off with age. Second most use this exact type of sweatband. They also tend to have the same cream lining. This visor shares all the signs of other Kleiderkasse SS visors I have seen. Nothing fishy that I can see, sorry. .

[SgtB]

Brian I meant no disrespect with the Brain thing. It was a mis spell. I have one question for you. How many SS Kleiderkasse visors have you seen over the years? The reason I ask is most share the exact same traits as Johns. They generally don’t have shields. Not because of some unscrupulous person but because they tend to use thin cello more so than the standard. This stuff just breaks off with age. Second most use this exact type of sweatband. They also tend to have the same cream lining. This visor shares all the signs of other Kleiderkasse SS visors I have seen. Nothing fishy that I can see, sorry. .

Actually I didn't take any disrespect from it, Nick! But Tony was implying it. And to be honest I don't even like seeing sweatshields in them, let alone one that is missing.

And Tony, I didn't realize I had called you a name. It was stated in the form of a question. And don't deny that you were goading me into the corner.

OK, I'm done. All I'm guilty of is answering questions asked of me. I'm not pretending to be 'the next expert' on the block, or whatever else it is that I've been accused of with no merit. I've simply stated my opinion. And that appears to be a real no-no!

[John Pic]

Not at all Brian,seeing where one is coming from adds to the learning experience. Your thoughts are appreciated whether you think so or not.Debate is always good because we have wide varying experiences compairing what they know.I hope you pay for a membership and post your SS Kleiderkasse visors to compair.

[Glenn McInnes]

All that can be said about this hat has been said.




This one is closed.


Glenn