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**marisca lrommel** · 12-07-2017, 02:23 AM

Hi Guys.

I start by apologizing for my lack of knowledge of English ... maybe some sentences make little sense because I support myself in the google language translator.

I have been reading all the answers of this thread that I had not seen until the indication of Peter J.

I will give my opinion first about the copy presented at the beginning of the e-medals store.
By its characteristics, it seems an original copy of the known as first design attributed, according to some of them myself to the manufacturer Deschler .... before I jump around the neck to say that it seems original, let me explain what I rely on for it.

According to the image of this prize it seems to be a cross to which, in a moment, the eagles have been separated from them by desolling them in order to show the denazified cross and later it has been repaired, welding the eagles again, leaving the oak crowns that have the swastika inside separated from the arms of the cross by the lack of material to have been previously cut with some type of saw.

Here you can see a cross of the Order of the German Eagle that was denazified and that I was able to see for sale some years ago.

There is another option on the prize of e-medals that would involve a serious accusation and of which there is no evidence that is the following:

The award was originally given to the denazified seller (Without eagles) and, in order to restore this prize and sell as a first class, the eagles are separated from a third class cross of 1937 and welded into the Cross that

This is my opinion on this copy of e-medals

By the way Peter J. do not call me Jesus Ruiz .... I prefer Jesus Franco, if you do not mindPulgares hacia arriba

denazified Example and e-medal cross with eagle separated

Attached Files

**marisca lrommel** · 12-07-2017, 02:37 AM

I think someone has hinted that there is no evidence that this model was actually manufactured and distributed during the period and that it could have been manufactured later, after the war making it pass for an original .... in my opinion such a statement is crazy. ... there are many tests that indicate this, such as, for example, that Great Cross given to the Governor of Rome. In Spain, a large number of these first designs were delivered during the Spanish Civil War (1936-1939). All those delivered before 1939 correspond to the design that we call Deschler's first 1937 type.

Images: Set of the Great Cross delivered in 1938 to Mr. José Ramón Gutierrez Allende Minister of Chile

Attached Files

**marisca lrommel** · 12-07-2017, 02:48 AM

This example of my collection was purchased by me from the heirs of Mr. José López Barrón-Cerruti. This person was a Commander in the Spanish Blue Division.
A summary of your military history:

Commander D. José López-Barrón Cerruti.

He joined the Blue Division in July 1941.

On August 1, 1941, he was appointed Chief of the 4th Section of the General Staff.

On January 24, 1942 is promoted to Tte. Colonel, and on May 16, 1942 is repatriated.

During the successive jobs he held important positions in the Spanish political life as Secretary of the Directorate General of Security and others reaching the rank of Brigadier General. The cross came to me with swords that, as we know, were not authorized by Hitler until 1939, which shows that they were later added by the prize-winner by order in specialized jewelery ... many of these examples are seen with swords later added in Spain by personnel military who received his Order of the Eagle before the proclamation of 1939 and ALL are added during the period

Attached Files

**marisca lrommel** · 12-07-2017, 02:54 AM

detail of the welds of the swords

Attached Files

**marisca lrommel** · 12-07-2017, 02:58 AM

As Peter J. rightly says, the correct name for the Eagle Orders of 1937 is "Stufe" and not "Klasse".

I have seen many 1937 design prizes that were accompanied by boxes of later models which indicates that the seller added those boxes to make the package + prize more valuable

Attached Files

2175_3.jpg (85.2 KB, 89 views)

**marisca lrommel** · 12-07-2017, 03:03 AM

Other evidence that this design was delivered during the first years. In this case, it was delivered in August 1937

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**marisca lrommel** · 12-07-2017, 03:11 AM

Going back to the example of e-medals ...

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e medals estudio.jpg (76.7 KB, 76 views)

**marisca lrommel** · 12-07-2017, 03:14 AM

..

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soldadura.jpg (80.9 KB, 75 views)

**marisca lrommel** · 12-07-2017, 05:22 AM

Originally posted by marisca lrommel View Post

Hi Guys.

I start by apologizing for my lack of knowledge of English ... maybe some sentences make little sense because I support myself in the google language translator.

I have been reading all the answers of this thread that I had not seen until the indication of Peter J.

I will give my opinion first about the copy presented at the beginning of the e-medals store.
By its characteristics, it seems an original copy of the known as first design attributed, according to some of them myself to the manufacturer Deschler .... before I jump around the neck to say that it seems original, let me explain what I rely on for it.

According to the image of this prize it seems to be a cross to which, in a moment, the eagles have been separated from them by desolling them in order to show the denazified cross and later it has been repaired, welding the eagles again, leaving the oak crowns that have the swastika inside separated from the arms of the cross by the lack of material to have been previously cut with some type of saw.

Here you can see a cross of the Order of the German Eagle that was denazified and that I was able to see for sale some years ago.

There is another option on the prize of e-medals that would involve a serious accusation and of which there is no evidence that is the following:

The award was originally given to the denazified seller (Without eagles) and, in order to restore this prize and sell as a first class, the eagles are separated from a third class cross of 1937 and welded into the Cross that

This is my opinion on this copy of e-medals

By the way Peter J. do not call me Jesus Ruiz .... I prefer Jesus Franco, if you do not mindPulgares hacia arriba

denazified Example and e-medal cross with eagle separated

I want to clarify that my personal opinion is that the cross and the eagles are part of this example for sale in e-medals. That, at some point, the eagles were separated from the cross to denazify it (I think they tried removing only the crown of oak and swastika leaving the eagles and later decided to remove the eagles in full ... that's why you see two cut oak crowns at the height of the talons of the eagle and later welded again).

I want to clarify this so that nobody thinks that I accuse e-medals.com of making a montage of a Gran Cruz-SASH with eagles of a third class .... I think they are the original eagles of the Cross that is sold. The other thing I said was a conjecture to indicate that it could be done

**marisca lrommel** · 12-07-2017, 06:49 AM

Someone has commented that he is surprised that previously unknown models are now coming to light. For me, the explanation is obvious .... these pieces are very scarce since they were produced only during the first 6 months of 1937 when there was still no real regulation of how these orders should be. Each manufacturer made them according to the measures and forms that marked the regulation but with its own characteristics (shape of the eagles, hinges, closures, markings, etc).
As there were so few copies, these have been in the hands of the heirs of the winners and the most veteran collectors and without the internet that has opened the information to all.
When these heirs or collectors have needed money or have decided to part with these awards is when we have begun to see them for sale on the Internet.

Until recently I also believed that many models were fakes because they simply did not respond to the characteristics of Godet's or Deschler's eagles (if Deschler actually made those of the second design of the 37).

But the evidence tells me that certain orders are authentic.

For example, a few years ago, I saw this Order of the Eagle of the third class on sale and I qualified it in a forum as false because it had certain different ones with those known by Godet and Deschler.

I was convinced of its originality when I saw other identical copies in the hands of heirs of winners who had received them early in early 1937.

A great collector of 40 years collecting that Peter J. and I know also assured me that they were authentic and showed me photographs of specimens that were in his collection.

The explanation of why this model stopped being manufactured is that the first designs were produced by hand in smaller quantities, the catch turned out to be very false and broke easily. The crosses were made in one piece ... (the eagles are not welded, but are part of the cross itself).

When so many different specimens were needed, it was thought to make another type of design with a more reinforced grip and the decoration in several parts that would later be welded to the Maltese Cross. The first models also had less quality of the enamels appearing spots in them.

Attached Files

**marisca lrommel** · 12-07-2017, 06:52 AM

spots on the enamel

Attached Files

manchas.jpg (111.9 KB, 91 views)

**marisca lrommel** · 12-07-2017, 11:28 AM

An illustration of the Orders of 1937. Notice that there is a printing error because where Stern zum Grosskreuz put there must be an 8-pointed star and yet an Order with a 6-pointed star appears

Attached Files

DDR14.jpg (69.7 KB, 81 views)

**Peter J.** · 12-07-2017, 12:46 PM

Jesus Franco, your wish is my commend. I assume it would be ok to use the shorter form "J-F", that would shorten the time to type

I posted a series of reflections dealing with mainly the markings found on DAO's and planned on doing the same about the various types. Since your responses were not about the content of my post, I'll return to them, once I 've finished my ongoing saga.

cheers
Peter

Originally posted by marisca lrommel View Post

Hi Guys.

I start by apologizing for my lack of knowledge of English ... maybe some sentences make little sense because I support myself in the google language translator.

I have been reading all the answers of this thread that I had not seen until the indication of Peter J.

I will give my opinion first about the copy presented at the beginning of the e-medals store.
By its characteristics, it seems an original copy of the known as first design attributed, according to some of them myself to the manufacturer Deschler .... before I jump around the neck to say that it seems original, let me explain what I rely on for it.

According to the image of this prize it seems to be a cross to which, in a moment, the eagles have been separated from them by desolling them in order to show the denazified cross and later it has been repaired, welding the eagles again, leaving the oak crowns that have the swastika inside separated from the arms of the cross by the lack of material to have been previously cut with some type of saw.

Here you can see a cross of the Order of the German Eagle that was denazified and that I was able to see for sale some years ago.

There is another option on the prize of e-medals that would involve a serious accusation and of which there is no evidence that is the following:

The award was originally given to the denazified seller (Without eagles) and, in order to restore this prize and sell as a first class, the eagles are separated from a third class cross of 1937 and welded into the Cross that

This is my opinion on this copy of e-medals

By the way Peter J. do not call me Jesus Ruiz .... I prefer Jesus Franco, if you do not mindPulgares hacia arriba

denazified Example and e-medal cross with eagle separated

**Peter J.** · 12-07-2017, 12:55 PM

J-F,

"The award was originally given to the denazified seller (Without eagles) and, in order to restore this prize and sell as a first class, the eagles are separated from a third class cross of 1937 and welded into the Cross that".

I thought we agreed on using the correct concept. Can you please re-write this with the appropriate distinction of classes, so I know how to address this properly.

cheers
Peter

**Peter J.** · 12-07-2017, 01:00 PM

J-F,

"I think someone has hinted that there is no evidence that this model was actually manufactured and distributed during the period and that it could have been manufactured later, after the war making it pass for an original .... in my opinion such a statement is crazy."

For the sake of future discussions, this is a statement I can fully agree on

cheers
Peter

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