AH flatware

[BrianK]

Has any count been done of how many AH silverware pieces were made? How many knives, forks, spoons, trays, teapots etc.?

[Br. James]

Since there is no central inventory source, how would one go about compiling such a list? The one and only list of tableware we have is that which was dated 29 Juli 1938 from the Munich jewelry store operated by Franz and Hermann Wandinger (F.H. Wani, Goldschmeide), listing 750 pieces of silverware to be delivered to "Teehaus Kehlstein" at the order of Architect Professor Roderich Fick, the Kehlsteinhaus' designer. We don't even know whether these 750 pieces were of the "Formal" or the "Informal" Pattern of AH silverware. There were obviously other orders for silverware over the years, given the number of locations where AH silverware was confirmed as "liberated" by occupation troops -- the Reichschancellery -- Old and New -- Hitler's apartment on Prinzregentenplatz in Munich, the Führerbau in Munich, the Berghof and the Teahouse on the Mooslahnerkopf in the Obersalzberg Administration, plus at least a few of Hitler's military headquarters and his yacht and train...that we know of!

It's quite a daunting task!

Br. James

[BrianK]

It's too bad there is no book available (to the best of my knowledge) showing pictures of all the AH formal & informal silverware types - from teaspoons to teapots and cigar boxes. I wonder if anyone has tried to assemble a "complete set" - one of each? It would be quite daunting at today's market prices.

[Br. James]

AMEN to that, Brian! With EACH PIECE of AH Formal and Informal silverware now costing at least a thousand bucks -- and that's for EACH knife, fork or spoon, with serving pieces, specialty pieces, platters, vases, champagne buckets and coffee and tea services running into the many thousands of dollars per piece -- it would take a lifetime to amass such a collection. And without the overall guidance of an accepted list or inventory to work against, how would anyone know for sure when he had completed the collection -- there's always a chance that a heretofore-unknown piece might pop up unexpectedly!

The only way I could envision such a collection developing would be for one of those few holders of large sets of vet bring-back collections of silverware to decide to specialize in adding to that set in the future. To begin from scratch now is almost overwhelming to consider! And even those who brought back large amounts of AH silverware have probably sold them off by now. One example is Dr. Griffith, whose father "liberated" a lot of AH silverware: presumably Dr. Griffith inherited his dad's collection and has both added to it and sold pieces of it off...

Sorry to be a nay-sayer, my friend, and if you decide to be the one collector to amass a full set of AH Formal and Informal silverware and utensils, I sincerely wish you all the luck in the world!

Br. James

[Berghof]

I would consider this....As this being a serious area of interest for myself; I would love to start cataloging all of the unique AH pieces (a virtual collection of sorts that can be used for reference). I'll stick my neck out and offer to host this on my website for everyone to view. I know of several collectors, including myself, that have a broad array of pieces....we can get a good start and simply add pieces as they surface.

My main area of concern is is being materially and historically accurate...as previously discussed in this thread, there's very little concrete reference material available. We would need several subject matter experts to be involved.

Would this be of interest to anyone? This will take some time to compile, but over time I think the effort will be well worth it.

Regards,
Mike

[Br. James]

Hi Mike,

Your approach to a central list or 'catalog' of AH silverware sounds like a good resource and reference possibility. While I am not in any way 'technically inclined,' I'd be happy to view and comment on what you're working on in this area of collecting.

Br. James

[Berghof]

Thanks Br James. Sounds like a plan.

[CPB]

The guy that runs this website has already collated quite a few Hoffmann photos of the silverware [scroll down]. By no means ALL the pieces, but a good start nonetheless.

http://www.hitlersnest.co.uk/

[Br. James]

Thanks for the reminder of the link to this formidable collection of AH Formal Pattern silverware! And even more impressive is the copy of the inventory letter from the Franz and Hermann Wandinger jewelry store that provided these pieces for the Kehlstein Haus...though we don't know whether this inventory document refers to the AH Formal or the Informal Pattern silverware! But this must surely be one of the most impressive collections of it's kind to exist today.

Br. James

[Berghof]

Thanks CPB! I planned to collaborate with Matthew regarding his collection.

Br. James - You are correct with pointing out whether or not the Kehlstein Haus order is formal or informal. Technically, we do not know but the timing of the order seems to coincide with the building of the Kelstein Haus....in preparation for Hitlers 50th birthday. It's my understanding the flatware set was made for his 50th birthday as well.

Perhaps we can examine the order and identify items that we don't see in the informal set...such as the lemonade spoons and fruit knives. I don't recall seeing informal examples of those pieces and they are on the order.

[Br. James]

Thanks, Mike, and your suggestion makes sense to me, though we really have very few hard facts to go on regarding either pattern of AH flatware, other than they were both produced by the cutlery firm of Peter Bruckmann & Söhne, located in Heilbronn. Both patterns -- the Formal (State) Pattern and the Informal Pattern -- have been known to exist for several decades and since provenance over time has illustrated that both patterns were found in a number of Hitler's locations, it is not possible to say that either pattern was created for any one particular house or dining room. We do know that the Formal Pattern was shown to exist in 1938 -- the year prior to Hitler's 50th birthday; the silverware was shown in a photo on p.191 of "Hitler at Home" by Despina Stratigakos (Yale University Press, 2015). This photo's caption states: "Heinrich Hoffmann, photo of Gerdy Troost's design of the Führer's table setting, on display at the 1938 German Architecture and Applied Arts Exhibit in the House of German Art, Munich." In this photo it appears that the dinner knife, dinner fork, soup spoon and teaspoon are of the AH Formal Pattern because of the shape of the handles; the photo does not include sufficient sharpness of detail to see the actual design on each implement.

So if the AH Formal Pattern silverware existed from 1938, when did the Informal Pattern come into usage...and why was it created, what purpose(s) was it designed to fulfill? For many years dealers in our hobby stated that the Informal Pattern preceded the Formal Pattern and that the Informal Pattern constituted a sort of a breakfast or luncheon service because of it's "Informality" of design, while the Formal Pattern was made for dinner service, plus use at formal State dinners and receptions at the New Reichschancellery and perhaps at the Führerbau or at the Brown House. This seems to make sense, but there are no facts known to back that opinion up.

Yes, we do have the shipping inventory from FH Wani for 750 pieces of silverware sent to the Kehlstein Haus in July of 1938...nine months prior to Hitler's 50th birthday. Was this shipment Formal or Informal silverware -- we know that at least the Formal Pattern existed in 1938, though we don't know when the Informal Pattern came into usage. Could the Wani list include both Formal and Informal pieces?

What would also be very useful in this discussion would be to have a sense of where pieces of Formal and Informal AH silverware were "found" or "liberated;" that would give us a better idea of how widely each of these patterns was distributed between Hitler's houses, offices, field headquarters and his yacht. One would assume that Hitler's private train was supplied only with Deutsche Reichsbahn silverware... But even if we did have a list of where provenance showed particular pieces of AH silverware were attributed to originate, such a list could never be complete. Over the last 15 or so years I have collected seven pieces of AH Informal silverware and none of those pieces came with any provenance of origin location, and I would presume that the great majority of pieces in collections and in dealers' catalogs don't include any information as to where each piece came from.

This note is far too long so I will stop now, but I think this project will eventually be most helpful to our hobby.

Br. James

[ErichS]

The large hoard of formal pieces that Shea had was vet acquired from the Kelstein house with documentation so most likely the formal pieces were delivered there.

[Br. James]

Thanks, Erich. That tie-in with Bill Shea's "large hoard of formal pieces" makes good sense to me...though I wonder why such a set of AH Formal Pattern silverware was shipped to the Kehlstein Haus when State Receptions were regularly held at the Berghof...? Of course, there were other orders for AH silverware to be shipped to the Berghof, and for delivery purposes, that would make sense. I believe examples of the Formal Pattern were found -- "liberated" -- at the Berghof and probably at the Tea House, as well. Weren't there pieces of the Informal Pattern found there, too?

Br. James

[Willie M]

Hi Guys , slight correction . The Adler Muller hoard of 2009 consisted of around 110 pieces that where liberated from the Eagles nest .
The Clarence Overman grouping ( 44 pieces ) that Bill Shea collected directly from Mr Overmans son also came from the Eagles nest as well . Bill believes that both GI's where there at the same time when the silverware was divided up .

[CPB]

Bill believes that both GI's where there at the same time when the silverware was divided up .

That is true, and it probably happened right here on this table...