AH flatware

[BrianK]

I agree that the above mentioned good dealers are good, but has anybody considered the possibility of the ever rising prices of AH formal pattern silverware giving incentive for forgers to produce fakes? With the demand rising and silver prices falling it could be very tempting for someone to start making fakes like they do with the TK rings.

[Br. James]

You're right, of course, Brian, and if what Chris says below is correct -- and I am aware that others believe that to be true, as well -- then the fakers have already gotten a foothold into the AH silverware market! Woe is us!!

Br. James

[CPB]

There was talk a while back of an, albeit inferior, fake formal pattern piece so undoubtedly Vlad is busy in his Estonian workshop cooking something up. Personally, I doubt they'll ever hit the quality to pass inspection by serious collectors.

It would be interesting to hear from the dealers on the forum, as no doubt they are offered questionable pieces by 'collectors' from time to time or keep a close eye on the auctions.

For gift items (cutlery given to AH from admirers and colleagues) the market in fakes is probably pretty lively - after all, how hard is it to engrave 'AH' on a piece of old German silverware?

And, of course, that's where pedigree of the former owner or provenance have to come into play. In other words, avoid eBay, Syder, et al.

Ahh the fun.

Chris

[ErichS]

The piece you're thing of is a spoon that came from South America and it was a poor representation when you compare it to an original. It showed casting marks and the Greek pattern was incorrect.

[CPB]

Yes that's the one!

[Br. James]

Hi Chris,

You've rightly shined a light upon all those 'private purchase gifts' made up specially for Hitler over the years...and for other bigwigs, as well. I have never been attracted by the various designs of jeweler-made monogrammed pieces of silverware, and for just that reason: anyone could have gone to his/her local jewelry and silverware shop and ordered a half-dozen solid silver dinner knives or forks in a lovely padded case and had them engraved with any sort of flowery or not-so-flowery initials of "A" and "H" and sent the lot off to the Reichschancellery or the Berghof with a Happy Birthday card for the Führer. Undoubtedly many people did just that, and that's why there seems to be a never-ending stream of such odd pieces that show up occasionally at auctions and flea markets. And some of those will have been made last year or five years ago, and without provenance, who's to say what is genuine and what is not! As you said: "Ahhh, the fun!"

Br. James

[BrianK]

I can't see why everyone thinks the AH formal silver pieces are so hard to copy. It's done quite a bit with TK rings, which are smaller and more intricate. These now practically require a Boyle certificate to be able to sell them. With silver at $20 an ounce, and the knives, forks and spoons selling for $1200 - $1800 each, I'll bet there are some high quality fakes on their way to market, or already there.

[CPB]

I can't see why everyone thinks the AH formal silver pieces are so hard to copy. It's done quite a bit with TK rings, which are smaller and more intricate. These now practically require a Boyle certificate to be able to sell them. With silver at $20 an ounce, and the knives, forks and spoons selling for $1200 - $1800 each, I'll bet there are some high quality fakes on their way to market, or already there.

Brian

I think you make a very fair point and it's naive to think the forgers aren't making some headway.

I guess my only thoughts are that at least with TK rings there has been a measured 'progression' in quality by the fakers. In other words, the early ones were pretty appalling and they've got steadily 'better' over the years. It's taken TIME to get things really good - and the TK fans have watched with interest.

Whereas with AH formal pattern we've only ever seen ONE example and that wasn't great. So NO OTHERS have been picked up - and I would have thought with such a high quality item, we would have seen a stream of attempts [poor engraving, wrong proof marks, incorrect weights or sizes, bad casting, etc] over the years. But we haven't. And I just cant believe anyone would get it spot on first time and fool serious collectors.

Like I say, it would be interesting to get a dealer's perspective here.

Chris

[Knight_ridergta]

That's pretty awesome! I would love to set up a display with an original table cloth or napkin. The wife said when we buy a house I can have a room just for all my stuff!

Welcome here with us, Knight! When I bought my first piece of AH flatware -- it happened to be a dessert fork in the Informal Pattern -- I did so because it was the first such piece I had come across that I could actually afford...in other words, IT WAS CHEAP, relatively speaking! Once I had it in my hands, I became quite attracted to the design in it's smooth, sleek simplicity...and when another piece of the Informal Pattern came available several months later, I grabbed it! Over the ensuing 15+ years I have amassed a complete place setting in the Informal Pattern and I am still as attracted to this design as I was so long ago. Even though the prices of the Informal Pattern are now almost as high as the Formal Pattern -- and there are two-thirds fewer pieces of the Informal Pattern than the State Service!

I must also comment that, since we are yet to find a complete inventory of either the Formal or the Informal Pattern service, or even the original order form, no one really knows how many pieces were actually made by P. Bruchmann & Sons -- especially since pieces were ordered over time to replace lost (stolen) pieces -- and we also don't know how many different implement styles were provided -- how many dinner knives, luncheon knives, dinner forks, salad forks, dessert forks or any of the wide variety of other implements that could possibly have been created for this service.

Br. James

[Knight_ridergta]

I'm pretty sure Snyder is making copies, who knows he might have his own steel plant making silverware

I can't see why everyone thinks the AH formal silver pieces are so hard to copy. It's done quite a bit with TK rings, which are smaller and more intricate. These now practically require a Boyle certificate to be able to sell them. With silver at $20 an ounce, and the knives, forks and spoons selling for $1200 - $1800 each, I'll bet there are some high quality fakes on their way to market, or already there.

[BrianK]

And maybe he is also painting the "Adolf Hitler" pictures he sells....

[Knight_ridergta]

My thoughts exactly! He has more Hitler paintings then the Louvre has of classical artists!

And maybe he is also painting the "Adolf Hitler" pictures he sells....

[Brent Smith]

"Adolf Hitler Drink Coaster" Mfg. Wellner Text Book Example

Here is original "Adolf Hitler Drink Coaster" Mfg. Wellner Text book example Roll Stamped "AH" With Rust Colored Felt Center See Dr. Mark Griffiths Book Reference page 50 . Text book example

[Brent Smith]

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[ErichS]

I like these coasters a lot and they would make a nice addition to any AH silver collection including mine.