Putsch/ Feldherrnhalle Grouping

[Matt Gibbs]

I agree Erich, it would be a fascinating research project. First one would have to find civilian functions at which Alte Kampfer were invited, then one would have to probably scan many hundreds of photos before perhaps spotting what only 'might' be the right ribbon. Its not something one often sees on photos of uniform, as you rightly say, so this would be a project with much work for someone I think!

[wessel]

Some nice images I came across in 'Unsere Reichsregierung'.

[wessel]

...

[wessel]

.

[JoeW]

I agree, it makes perfect sense that a BO awardee should have been able to wear a lapel pin indicating his prestigious status, but I've never been able to find any indication that this was the case. Nor have I seen a photo of anyone wearing such a device, although the number of BO wearers was so small that, except for the 9. November celebrations or the Alte Kämpfer trips, it's rare to see the full sized award on a tunic or brownshirt in a photo. Another interesting research topic!
I suppose a wearer could have commissioned a jeweler to make one or a few for himself and/or other Träger. I doubt they could have gotten into trouble for wearing a lapel pin, as long as they were bona fide awardees.
Erich

Erich, was this subject matter covered by the enabling ordinances from Schwarz after the BO was first authorized?

Does anyone have a photo of the manner of wear of the BO by members of the Wehrmacht?

[JoeW]

Wessel's posts above reminded me of the discussion on another thread that should perhaps be addressed here. This photo below was contributed by Laurens.



We can of course contrast it with the one posted above of Hitler and another relative of one of the sixteen. They were obviously taken during different Neunte Elfte events. A question I have is how where these relatives handled during the ceremonies. Obviously chairs were provided. But were the present at every event from 1933 on? Were they grouped together (probably before the 1935 Internment ceremony) and later divided according to where their lost one would be interred? Any photos to answer these questions?

[ErichS]

I still think the photo of Hitler with the families of the fallen was taken in 1935 during the dedication of the Ehrentempels. I doubt that the families would have been at all the future anniversary's.

[JoeW]

Erich, the two photos are obviously of two different years because of the difference in Hitler's uniform. Yours is 1935, so the above was 1934 or 1933?

[ErichS]

Erich, the two photos are obviously of two different years because of the difference in Hitler's uniform. Yours is 1935, so the above was 1934 or 1933?

Point taken, you're correct regarding the uniform.

[ErichS]

Joe, the photo can't be from 33 due to the awarding of the BO didn't start until 34.

[JoeW]

Of course you're right. What was I thinking. I should have typed 1936, as I wrote on the other thread. My police magazine covering the internment showed pictures of the caissons approaching the Ehrentempels. Caskets had already been placed before south Ehrentempel and it appeared a group was nearby, perhaps relatives. I can't think that they would all be seated together before one Tempel, if eight others would be interred in the north Tempel.

But were there any Ehrentempels in 1934? Why would relatives be seated at a ceremony on the Konigsplatz where nothing was done to commemorate their fallen relatives? Everything concerning the martyrs was done at the FH until 1935? So the above picture must be 1936 and thus the relatives were involved in post 1936 internment ceremonies? Does that sound correct?

[JoeW]

I still think the photo of Hitler with the families of the fallen was taken in 1935 during the dedication of the Ehrentempels. I doubt that the families would have been at all the future anniversary's.

Erich, the photos I mentioned in the "After the Battle" article on the Neunte Elfte ceremony included NARA photos from the Hoffmann collection of the 1938 9/11 ceremony. It ended with Hitler greeting the survivors. So apparently they were at post-1935 ceremonies.

[JoeW]

According to threads on Axis, all Konigsplatz ceremonies began in 1935. There was no march in 1934, only a simple wreath laying. So both the above photos were 1935 and post 1935.

[JoeW]

According to threads on Axis, all Konigsplatz ceremonies began in 1935. There was no march in 1934, only a simple wreath laying. So both the above photos were 1935 and post 1935.

Looking at my police magazine from that date it is obvious the 1934 celebration was something more than a simple wreath laying, as Hitler, Hess and the leader of the SS and SA were marching from somewhere to the FHH. There were massive formations on the Odeonplatz. Hardly a simple affair. Don't know why I mentioned the Axis Forum comments. I had the magazine article in hand.

[ErichS]

Looking at my police magazine from that date it is obvious the 1934 celebration was something more than a simple wreath laying, as Hitler, Hess and the leader of the SS and SA were marching from somewhere to the FHH. There were massive formations on the Odeonplatz. Hardly a simple affair. Don't know why I mentioned the Axis Forum comments. I had the magazine article in hand.

1934 was not a simple affair but a full march by Hitler and BO holders marching the entire route of the original Putsch. It was done every year up until the early 40's.