Putsch/ Feldherrnhalle Grouping

[ErichS]

Here's a private photo card from 35 at the Ehrentempel dedication from my collection.

[JoeW]

Erich, are you positive that the route of the march was followed and all BO holders were in attendance? In the police magazine photo, Hitler is alone at the head of the procession followed by Himmler (BO yes) and Lutze (BO no). The rest of the event took place but I can't be sure if the route was marched, nor whether all BO recipients took part.

[ErichS]

1934 was not a simple affair but a full march by Hitler and BO holders marching the entire route of the original Putsch. It was done every year up until the early 40's.

Joe, the march ended at the FHH.

[JoeW]

Again, I am asking if your source is definitive that the entire route was marched and all BO recipients in attendance like 1933. I will scan the photos from the magazine article, but the shot of Hitler marching past the canopy on Residienzstrasse just a bit before the new Mahnmal location shows only him followed by Himmler and Lutze, then more SS. There is no evidence of the large group of Putschists.

[JoeW]

Erich, reviewing the 1933 and 1934 pictures of the Neunte Elfte in the police magazines, it seems the ceremonies for both of those years ended on the Karlsplatz. There are photos of showing the original grass stagin areas and the Braun Haus. I surmise Hitler wished to continue the connection of 9.11.23 with the location of the NSDAP HQ in the Braun Haus.

[ErichS]

Joe, that sounds correct and thanks for the additional information on the march. A good book on these events and martyrs is "To Die For Germany."

[wessel]

Apologies for the quality of this image. It is taken from a small booklet entitled 'Der Nationalsozialismus in Munchen' which I picked up in a museum there.
It shows passers-by saluting the 'Ehrenmal'

[Erich B.]

[QUOTE=JoeW;4800541]Erich, was this subject matter covered by the enabling ordinances from Schwarz after the BO was first authorized?

Joe,
I can find no information regarding regulations for civilian clothing, other that the fact that the BO was not allowed to be worn on civilian clothing.
Erich

[Bigbander]

Wow...a real joy to behold!

[ErichS]

Here's a photo that was posted on another forum of Emil Petzendorfer and his son wearing his BO # 41. He was also awarded the Coburg badge and was one of the founding members of SA Munich. The interesting thing about him is that he was dismissed from the party in 1939 for corruption. My question is, did he have to return his BO which would have been per regulations?

[Jon Fish]

Here's a photo that was posted on another forum of Emil Petzendorfer and his son wearing his BO # 41. He was also awarded the Coburg badge and was one of the founding members of SA Munich. The interesting thing about him is that he was dismissed from the party in 1939 for corruption. My question is, did he have to return his BO which would have been per regulations?

I'm not so sure Erich. I know it should have been returned but I have a first pattern in my collection that belonged to an Alter Kampfer who was expelled from the party for fraud against the party amongst other things.
He owed the railroad office in Berlin for repeatedly using fake train tickets AS WELL as using a fake ID to charge traveling expenses. He was stripped of his Blutorden on Sept. 14th 1942.
He twice tried to submit his application to re-join the NSDAP Sep 15th of 1943 and again on March 25 of 1944, both time he was denied.
However his medal surfaced to me from Holland having been collected by a Dutch 'Nazi hunter' in 1946.
I also have a first pattern that was issued to someone and taken away and re-issued to another person,so that one was probably sent back to HQ.

[ErichS]

I'm not so sure Erich. I know it should have been returned but I have a first pattern in my collection that belonged to an Alter Kampfer who was expelled from the party for fraud against the party amongst other things.
He owed the railroad office in Berlin for repeatedly using fake train tickets AS WELL as using a fake ID to charge traveling expenses. He was stripped of his Blutorden on Sept. 14th 1942.
He twice tried to submit his application to re-join the NSDAP Sep 15th of 1943 and again on March 25 of 1944, both time he was denied.
However his medal surfaced to me from Holland having been collected by a Dutch 'Nazi hunter' in 1946.
I also have a first pattern that was issued to someone and taken away and re-issued to another person,so that one was probably sent back to HQ.

Thanks for the info Jon, GPBs as we know were reissued to others and knowing how frugal the Germans were it doesn't surprise me that BOs were reissued too.

[Br. James]

Hi Jon and Erich,

This line of thinking is new to me! When a BO was reissued after being returned by the former holder, was the number changed on the award or were the issuing documents changed to show the new holder's name? And regarding GPBs being reissued -- also new to me -- was the new awardee given the former member's NSDAP number, a new membership book with that old number, a new set of Trager documents, etc., or was the number on the badge somehow erased and a new one stamped onto it?

Your thoughts are always helpful; thanks!

Br. James

[ErichS]

Hi Br. James, I have seen names scratched off the BO recipients lists next to the issue number and the Order reissued to another person using the same number. I think that Jon has an example of this and maybe he will post it. I have seen a GPB in the past with what looked like a new number impossed over the old one.

[Br. James]

Thank you, Erich -- as Mr. Spock would say, "Fascinating!" It is hard for me to wrap my mind around the concept of re-issuing either a BO or a GPB, unless it was done to replace or accommodate an order from a long-standing person already on the relevant list. If a person was expected to return his BO or GPB if he was dismissed from the Party, then there must have been a few odd pieces laying around the office and available for re-issue, when an order for a replacement piece came in. I know GPBs were always special-order items that carried the member's Party number, but what of BO replacements? Were they too always stamped with the recipient's number or were replacements left without an award number? Also, was the office that controlled the numbering and issuance of the BO a branch of the National Treasurer's Office, or was it independent?

Fascinating subject! Many thanks as always!

Br. James