Spanish Cross - Unknown Maker(s)

[Scott C.]

Photos were terrible... Would love to see the maker mark. If NOT spurious it might be the Rosetta stone to this cross. So please add more clear shots. On the OTHER side of that coin, this cross with various spurious marks, not such a good sign!

I've done everything I can with that photo to enhance the MM on Scott's cross. Even if not made by W&L if they sold it wartime, that's great!

Sorry, but the L55 cross isn't mine. It's from my SK photo archive.

[all1knew]

so we have crosses that some have called fakes with both L/12 marks that don't match Juncker and L/55 marks as well?

[streptile]

Trevor, the maker mark from above, can you definitively say it's right???

I guess not 100%, not without getting a better look at it, but it looks correct to me, for sure.

[Brian S]

I don't think the L55 is the same as he "unknown". This is the best I can do with that photo. Should have done this sooner. L55 may be a deadend for the unknown maker.

[streptile]

I don't think the L55 is the same as he "unknown". This is the best I can do with that photo. Should have done this sooner. L55 may be a dead end for the unknown maker.

Well, that's interesting. To be frank I can't tell if they're the same type or not.

Brian, what specific differences can you point out?

Maybe more members with experience in the field of the Spain Cross can offer opinions on the question.

[Brian S]

What just struck me as the most obvious, you only need one difference, is the shape of the eagle's neck. One longer, elongated more than the other. The "unknown" stretches forward.

[Scott C.]

FWIW, I requested dimensions of the "diamond" SK from Screamneagle: 5.54mm across and 56.24mm from top to bottom. The circumference of the central disk is 16.62mm. The pin is 42.92 mm long and the swords are 62.52mm from tip to hilt.

[all1knew]

I am seeing two different maker marks on these unknown crosses.

[all1knew]

and then we have a maker mark like this

[all1knew]

nobody has shown us the maker mark on this cross yet. On gmic Jacques posted this cross but nobody has ever seen the reverse maker mark on this one have they? Here we see two different crosses:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/34...-5#entry323088

[Brian S]

Are you referring to the 900 as a maker mark? No one has seen a maker mark on the unknown maker yet. Is that what you mean?

[all1knew]

Are you referring to the 900 as a maker mark? No one has seen a maker mark on the unknown maker yet. Is that what you mean?

oh duh yeah that's what I mean

before you make too much fun, I just want to add that the "900" mark was put there by some maker, even if unknown!

William Kramer

[streptile]

I'll go out on a limb and say that I'm leaning towards the conclusion that this type is made by W&L.

• I think the L55 mark looks good on the one Scott posted;
• with due respect to Brian's doubts, I think the L55 SKIB looks to me to be the same type as the SKIS posted by jwburchell *;
• I think the pin on these crosses is vintage W&L;
• and I think the crosses themselves look to be period from what I can see in the photos.

I also think the diamonds cross sold by Screamn Eagle was a good one, upgraded with a fake roundel to make it a diamonds cross.

Any other thoughts on this theory?





* If this turns out to be untrue then the entire theory falls apart.

[all1knew]

fair enough but that doesn't explain the numerous markings we find on these (if they are all identical production) as so far we've seen one L/55, one L/12 that matches no known Juncker product (mark may have been added postwar) and two different styles of "900" on the backs of these. There just seems to be a lot that doesn't add up.

Has anyone ever gotten one of these out of a Veteran lot?

William Kramer

[Leroy]

Has anyone ever gotten one of these out of a Veteran lot?

Yes. These are the only photos I have now. I am not worried about the different marks, as I have seen more original pieces, which were not marked at manufacture, marked "later in life" than you can shake a stick at. This was a very common thing, especially back in the 60's-80's, when collectors believed "it can't be real unless it's marked".