Spanish Cross - Unknown Maker(s)

[jwburchell]

In an attempt to establish and gather information regarding "unknown" makers of the Spanish Cross awards, two patterns of which seem to be evident, I am opening this thread.

Reference is made to the thread "Spanish Cross Juncker L/12" which appears here:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=663726

In that thread it was generally agreed that the "L/12" (Juncker) maker mark on my SKiS w/swords shown immediately below is NOT an original Juncker mark and had presumably been added to increase the value. So the maker mark issue is now off the table.

However, there were opinions expressed which indicate the possibility of this award being a period original, albeit by an "unknown" maker.

Therefore, given the divided concensus it would be very helpful if more input from fellow collectors with more experience on this subject could contribute toward building additional information on the "unknown" maker (or makers) topic, and perhaps show additional examples for study and discussion.

The pictures of my award shown below are re-takes of the same piece shown in the above-referenced thread, albeit re-done on a white background in natural light to hopefully show greater detail.

Thanks for anticipated input.

John

[jwburchell]

Additional views:

[Sal Williams]

Same as this one. I believe the cross that started this thread is good with a bad mark

[jacques]

Same one in silver , stamped 900.

I guess these crosses were early manufactured, and I think awarded with the first ones in 1939. Not so many firms were concerned by this first production. Juncker, Meybauer, Deumer, Godet.
I tend to think, even if I've yet absolutly no proof, that these crosses were produced by Godet. It is just a supposition, don't brandish shilds and swords.
jacques

[streptile]

I tend to think, even if I've yet absolutly no proof, that these crosses were produced by Godet.

Interesting idea. Do you think it was Gebr. Godet, or J. Godet und Sohn?

[Brian S]

Please compare the eagle on these to the Spain Cross w/Diamonds. Small eagle which is not the same as this one... No disrespect just don't believe these are Godet.

[jacques]

Brian,
As I said, it is just an opinion, unproved, just a way of search. nevertheless, diamonds crosses are larger than the normal one. so the eagles are larger too I suppose and thus can't be from the same die.
which is interesting on these crosses is the scratch that can be observed on the reverse of the eagles.

[Brian S]

Look how small the eagles are on the diamonds crosses. Like they didn't make larger ones for those slightly larger crosses.

[Tom B]

Please compare the eagle on these to the Spain Cross w/Diamonds. Small eagle which is not the same as this one... No disrespect just don't believe these are Godet.

I agree

[Rich G]

Regardless of the maker, when it first came up everything was about was it a Juncker cross (which it wasn't). We should have (myself included) taken more time to study the piece as a whole and it does look like it could be an original piece.

[Brian S]

Here again is a shot of the Godet eagle on the Diamonds version which shows the normal sized eagled all the way down the arms of the cross because the eagle is "normal" size and the Diamonds cross itself larger. Compare to a gold cross where it is all in proportion and "normal" size eagles are up the arms of the cross as we so often see. That convinces me Godet made an eagle that would have fit on a non-Diamonds version cross. To really understand this would take a very accurate measurement of the Diamonds cross eagle wingtip to wingtip to see if I am mistaken... Meybauer and Deumer cross eagles sit nearly on top of the swaz emblem. It's just a theory and without measurements I can only conjecture. But I do have issues declaring an unmarked cross a Godet. Certainly Godet was not shy in marking their wares with their name, LDO number, PKZ number.

My point to the eagles location on the cross is in direct comparison to the "unmarked" cross. These eagles sit clearly Up the arm of the cross. Indicating a "larger" eagle. And if Godet I think they would be the same eagle which they are not.

And Jacques I would add Otto Schickle to your list of the earliest awarded crosses.
Juncker
Meybauer
Deumer
Godet (Diamonds)
Schickle

[cej]

Very interesting Spanish Crosses !!

How many makers cut arms of the swastika cut out in 3 places ?

[Brian S]

I really wish this would be called by its correct translation...

German-Spain Cross.

It is not a "Spanish" anything...

Some dumb a$$ early author of an English book on german awards mistakenly translated and it's stuck... Unstick this stupidity. Please....

[cej]

Spanish Cross Is this normal ???

Who made Spanish Crosses with 3 legs cut out ????

[Scott C.]

Here's a similar German-Spanish Cross marked L55 - spuriously I assume.

As cej asked earlier, are these the only examples that has the swaz with the 3 cut-outs?