Rudel's awards photo

[Dietrich Maerz]

They could not after october 1941. Maybe some 5-6 did with connections in Berlin, but that does not account for the many, many so-called (fake) "private purchases" - a label which is slapped on every other fake.
Besides, even if they bought privately - the models were still the same as the official ones. Unless one believes that there was an underground manufacturing going on.

Dietrich

[Leroy]

They could not do so "officially" after October, 1941, but there are many reported instances after that date (including Hartmann!) going into shops and coming out with an RK. Display samples were allowed to be kept by shops and there was no policeman waiting to arrest someone who allowed an RK winner to obtain another.

[Dietrich Maerz]

That is true! You know what I mean, though. The fact that they could is not proof for all kinds of crazy RK fakes. That's all I meant.

And the 599 number is mentioned in my book "The German Cross" and is based on the only official record of such buys by the PKZ, dated October 1944. I find it hard to believe that the same or even more Knights Cross winner tried to lure some shop owner into selling them (against the law) another Knights Cross when it was fairly easy to obtain one through the official channels right to the posting in Russia or wherever they were stationed.

And even if there were another 600 or even 1000 who used the inconvenient and unlawful way - how many survived and how many were really different to the actual award models?

This whole "official" or "unofficial" bought cross issue is from a pure numbers point completely insignificant. And I personally think that these privately purchased RKs were also Juncker or S&L anyway!

Dietrich

[Leroy]

I agree that most wore the one they received! I also agree that most were probably the same as the regular models (unless pre-March -October 1941, when anything could have happened).

How are your goats doing? Is it still raining in Serbia?

[Flemming]

But if anyone really thinks an RK winner could not privately obtain another cross, they are living in a fantasy land.

I don't know if this comment was ment for me, but I do know that they could obtain an official replacement cross.

/Flemming

[Leroy]

Flemming - Not intended for you at all and please don't take it that way!

Just trying to convey that RK winners had no problems getting another piece, whether it was officially through the PKZ or privately from shops. They may have had to "sweet-talk" one (which probably did not come with a case) from a shop owner, but these guys were perfectly capable of that. I wish we really knew how many pieces were used for display in shops all over Germany. Almost every town of any size had a shop for the sale of uniforms, etc., and I would bet there were more than we would expect.

[Flemming]

Flemming - Not intended for you at all and please don't take it that way!

Thank you

/Flemming

[chen]

Interesting to see another forum member Sepp 45 posted this picture of Rudel's awards.

[mdj]

Yes indeed. I have never seen that pic with rudel and his boxed awards.....very interesting

[Steinar]

Rudels face looks like "get me the f**k out of here"
Cool picture.

[Leroy]

Someone said in the other thread which showed this Rudel photo that it was taken by W.C. Stump. I had been under the impression that it was taken by Vern Bowen when he was researching his book, but I could certainly be wrong.

[chen]

Someone said in the other thread which showed this Rudel photo that it was taken by W.C. Stump. I had been under the impression that it was taken by Vern Bowen when he was researching his book, but I could certainly be wrong.

My guess is the same as yours.

[DaveNZ]

I've always thought it rather strange that he was always pictured with that well worn KC. Especially since it just seems to diminish the overall tidiness of the set with the Golden Oakleaves and Swords.

I would guess they were proud of the one they were awarded / wore, but still .... it's a well known fact that many RKtraeger's purchased additional copies for special occasions.

I dont find it strange at all, in fact it makes perfect sense: the original issue (and subsequent well worn) cross would have great personal value to the guy who had been wearing it after all those missions/years.

The Cross had "been there" with the veteran.

cheers

dave

[Calvin Hall]

The photo of Rudel and his boxed awards was taken by a friend of mine during a visit to the bank vault where Rudel kept his awards. My friend was a US serviceman who was stationed in Germany during the late 1960's and early 1970's.

He met numerous RK recipients in their homes and corresponded with many more.

Although Rudel is not smiling in the photo, it was his idea to take my friend to the bank vault. I have seen more photos from this visit that include Rudel, his wife, etc.

See the link below for my original posting...

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...emporary+rudel

[Leroy]

Thanks for the information!

Did this visit to the bank vault result in the photo that has been used in reference books (of just the awards in their box), or do you know if that one was taken some other time?