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**all1knew** · 07-13-2011, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by Don Doering View Post

Perhaps it is because they were all considered legitimate actions of war at the time.

Understandable, but where do you draw the line. I mean, the flip-side to that coin is Malmedy; a legitimate action of war or a massacre?

I was speaking of the rape of Austria and in no way am I trying to start an argument but the truth is they don't teach of these things. When learning US history throughout Senior year; one minute the "Russians" are our gracious allies against evil and then a week after that segment comes the evil spread of Communism via the viscous empire of the "Soviet Union" and their doctrines.

Legitimate actions of war are VERY suspect to interpretation and opinion - my point is that the entire story should be taught - show both sides of the chaos that was the second World War.

William Kramer

**all1knew** · 07-13-2011, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by Sal Williams View Post

I don't know how the world survived the allies winning the war Don!

Sal,

Please believe me when I say that the statement of mine was taken out of context and wasn't at all what I meant when I stated it.

My empathy towards the truth of what really did happen has nothing to do with my loyalty to my country. I have worked very hard to educate not only myself with the true cost of freedom but others around me as well. Never forget.

God bless America.

William Kramer

**VtwinVince** · 07-13-2011, 12:42 PM

I think you Americans would be wise to stop slapping yourselves on your collective backs for your glorious part in the last war. Many Germans died whilst under American occupation, particularly the POW's in the west, or should I say DEF's? My mother's family was thrown out of their house by US forces, my grandmother was shot at by a GI, and my mother was sexually assaulted. Of course this was nothing compared to what my father's family suffered in East Prussia, but this self-satisfied gloating is really not a true reflection of what happened.

**LeeJ** · 07-13-2011, 12:48 PM

Understandable, but where do you draw the line. I mean, the flip-side to that coin is Malmedy; a legitimate action of war or a massacre?

The bottom line is that there is always right and wrong and if you are a Soldier in my Army you get multiple classes on the ROE etc.

I was speaking of the rape of Austria and in no way am I trying to start an argument but the truth is they don't teach of these things. When learning US history throughout Senior year; one minute the "Russians" are our gracious allies against evil and then a week after that segment comes the evil spread of Communism via the viscous empire of the "Soviet Union" and their doctrines.

The education system is lacking all over the world. Its always up to the indevidual to seek the truth. School is just a broad overview because there just isnt time to really dig in.

Legitimate actions of war are VERY suspect to interpretation and opinion - my point is that the entire story should be taught - show both sides of the chaos that was the second World War.

Its called the Geneva Convention. Not suspect but in black and white. I agree that both sides of the story are relevent but if you have 1 finger the truth is just a click away and for those who still use their eyeballs there is the good ol fashioned book

Its not hard to draw a conclusion on right and wrong.

Back to the subject. This thread is some serious food for thought but I think for most of us we can only ponder the great mysteries of history. I think its very interesting to focus on the different EK1s he could have had viewing these photos and I thank you all for that

ps You wont see me bidding on anything "from" AH

**LeeJ** · 07-13-2011, 01:07 PM

I think you Americans would be wise to stop slapping yourselves on your collective backs for your glorious part in the last war. Many Germans died whilst under American occupation, particularly the POW's in the west, or should I say DEF's? My mother's family was thrown out of their house by US forces, my grandmother was shot at by a GI, and my mother was sexually assaulted. Of course this was nothing compared to what my father's family suffered in East Prussia, but this self-satisfied gloating is really not a true reflection of what happened.

Vince, We can all go on about the injustices done to our families in the past and present. That doesnt make one side right or wrong, it just means both sides have criminals amongst themselves and its up to both sides to police them up. You have my sympathy.

**PAB_Collector** · 07-13-2011, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by VtwinVince View Post

I think you Americans would be wise to stop slapping yourselves on your collective backs for your glorious part in the last war. Many Germans died whilst under American occupation, particularly the POW's in the west, or should I say DEF's? My mother's family was thrown out of their house by US forces, my grandmother was shot at by a GI, and my mother was sexually assaulted. Of course this was nothing compared to what my father's family suffered in East Prussia, but this self-satisfied gloating is really not a true reflection of what happened.

This has what to do with Hitler's Iron Cross, how?

**DennyB** · 07-14-2011, 12:39 AM

Does anyone know if the WWI style Iron Crosses were produced up until 1939 when they switched over to the 1939 version? I had to wonder if there were plenty of (NOS) New Old Stock ones available.
The reason I wondered was that it appears Hitler probably had several to accommodate one for each uniform and shirt unless his body servant switched them out every time he changed clothes.

**LeeJ** · 07-14-2011, 08:42 AM

There were TR era EK1s for WW1 made. I only have this one whitch was probably made in the early 30's but perhaps some other Imperial collectors could show their's from the later 30's or 1939-45 made ones.

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**DaveNZ** · 07-15-2011, 02:58 AM

Originally posted by Don Doering View Post

Perhaps it is because they were all considered legitimate actions of war at the time.

How does the My Lai massacre fit into the scale of "legitimate actions of war" Don

**Don D.** · 07-15-2011, 04:34 AM

Please re-read post #132 which shows which comment I was responding to. Trying to put words in my mouth is very unbecoming of you. If you can't keep up with the conversation and provide relevent comments then please don't lower the conversation with childish insinuations.

**DaveNZ** · 07-19-2011, 08:26 PM

Originally posted by panzer wittman View Post

I'd recommend the book on hitlers death to you. It was printed a few years ago and contains the original transcripts of the bunker staff and nkvd staff involved.

In the pictures section it contains pictures of hitlers ek1 and old party badge, as well as a couple of his tunics and visors. (from memory. I have a copy at home somewhere).

Here's a link to amazons copy

http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Death-...4933658&sr=1-2

It's also a good and accurate read for anyone not quote sure what happened to his remains after the war.
Regards
Pw

I have this book and last night and had another flick through it.

It mentioned how the Russians had a piece of Hitlers skull and that there was a bullet hole in it.

Hasn't it been proved by DNA that that particular piece of skull is actually from a woman and thus cannot be Hitlers?

I agree it is a good book but i always keep in mind that anything published by the russians must be kept in the context that the truth was not always a priority for them when it came talking about National Socialism!

just look at all their staged photos for starters....

**DaveNZ** · 07-19-2011, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by Don Doering View Post

Please re-read post #132 which shows which comment I was responding to. Trying to put words in my mouth is very unbecoming of you. If you can't keep up with the conversation and provide relevent comments then please don't lower the conversation with childish insinuations.

hey Don, there was nothing childish in my post

nor was I insinuating anythng.

i was merely stating facts!

you put the twist on it.

**Bradley** · 07-07-2012, 05:55 AM

Oh, This thread had much potential until it got derailed..

Just putting my two cents in; I read somewhere that AH didn't have the #1 GPB, but after some time, in fact awarded himself the #1 badge and kept it until he gave it to Magda Goebbels shortly before his suicide.
Supposedly, that was the only thing Adolf 'awarded' himself, although he only really promoted himself as he already had one.

Now, don't quote this 100%, as I'm going by memory of what I read. Feel free to pull it apart and prove me wrong, this whole topic interests many and I'm sure and positive input is welcomed by all, as it would be nice to see some on-topic discussion regarding the topic again.

**DaveNZ** · 07-08-2012, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by Bradley View Post

Oh, This thread had much potential until it got derailed..

what do you mean

it wouldn't be WAF if there wasn't a fight involving handbags at ten paces

**Bradley** · 07-09-2012, 12:03 AM

Originally posted by DaveNZ View Post

what do you mean

it wouldn't be WAF if there wasn't a fight involving handbags at ten paces

Yeah, too true mate. Haha!

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