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Todd,
I call your core date 'the leaning 9', because of the last '9' leaning to the right a bit.
Douglas,
So, you're saying Juncker's first 1939 EK's utilized W&L cores up until the time when Juncker tooled-up to produce the 'teardrop 9' dated core. Very interesting. My only hand-painted/frosted Juncker frame has #2 core from the chart, which appears to be have the shorter '1'... I understand this is a W&L date. Can you confirm this?Comment
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Robert and Douglas,
This is still a little confusing for me, just to confirm: I have a W&L core, the B in your core listing Douglas, the leaning 9 as you call it Robert, in a Juncker frame?
Thanks guys
ToddComment
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I'll catch up with this topic tomorrow night, as I have business to attend to presently. I'm very curious as to Douglas's opinion on this cross.Comment
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I am also curious as to what Douglas thinks of this cross. From my uneducated vantage point I have made some observations:Originally posted by robert pierce View Post
1. The core does not appear to be a Juncker core but the B core Douglas pointed out, I am assuming that this is a W&L core? Or was this a variant made by W&L for Juncker in the early days?
2. The core is not magnetic, suggesting an early piece; likely tombac or zinc.
3. The frame for me is the most troubling:
A. It has very weak crosshatching
B. Does not have the three frame flaw
C. I see no crunch bead/flaw at the two o'clock position
D. It has the overall appearance of a Juncker/W&L frame
E. I honestly can't tell if the right top corner is a little lower
F. I see no webbing
4. In so far as the frame being a W&L frame:
A. No webbing noted
B. No crunch bead/flaw at the 2 o'clock position
C. I see none of the several valley flaws nor the flaw at the right side of the top arm associated with W&L
5. The L/12 stamp, I simply don't know.
Those are my thoughts. Please feel free to correct any erroneous information. All thoughts are appreciated. I really want to solve this puzzle.
Best to all,
ToddComment
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Todd,
It may be one of juncker's reworked frames. I'm away from my files presently and cannot access any photos to compare.Comment
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Hi Todd .. been on the go alot .
It is either a reworked Juncker or W&L frame , .. so will put up some pictures what to look for. It is not that easy to make pictures ... the correct light and angle is needed . Once I show the pictures you and others will understand what and why the difference is , and where to look for it - on your own with a good magnifying glass .
DouglasComment
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To both Douglas and Robert thank you for taking the time to reply to my questions. I appreciate the time and energy that was put into this thread, by all who contributed. It has been a very good learning experience.
Best regards,
ToddComment
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To be able for anyone to make an accurate and poper identification some of destinquishing features of each die .
First the 2 frame types ; Juncker and W&L frames are made by the same engraver .
As close as they may seam at first glance , ... there are very distiquishable differences . Outside corners crosshatching on both but only Juncker has the inside crosshatching ! The best features are on the upper inside corner .
This goes for EK1's and 2's .
DouglasComment
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A comparison of an orig untouched and reworked W&L frame . The original hand engraving is quit rough compared to the re-worked die .
Important thing to note is the bead step width . The re-worked frame now has far lessbead step showing than the orginal !
The new bead exstends or is added mainly onto the outside part of the die !
DouglasComment
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Now the area that is important on the re-worked Juncker frame .
Area in red of importance .!!
DouglasComment
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An enlargment of the area in question and what to look for !
This part bead rembnance ... if there a Juncker re-worked frame .
DouglasComment
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Mystery solved!! I would say that this L/12 is a re-worked W&L. It exhibits the double bead crowns all over the place and on closer inspection I do see webbing. Like in the W7L reworked die you show mine is also marked L/12. So was this a post war L/12 stamp? Or did Juncker have a hand in this? Douglas thanks for illutrating these differences!Originally posted by Douglas 5 View Post
Best regards,
ToddComment
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Douglas,
Sorry for posting before you were done. I am still sticking with my first impression, a re-worked W&L frame. The Juncker characteristics from both original and re-worked frame I am not seeing on my particular cross.
Best regards,
ToddComment
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It is all about the closer crunch bead that the Juncker frame has !! The 2 close beads become 1 !! As the 2 crunch beads on the W&L frame are redone as seperate beads once again . !
The comparison below shows the reason why .
Todd ; this should help you identify which re-worked frame you have .
DouglasComment
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